Different question about business travel - where is home?

[Lance]

If I fly to and from London to visit client's site that's business travel. As are the hotels, meals etc.

If I fly to London, do the visits, and then fly to visit family in the alps, could that (flight to alps) count, not as a business trip, but as the return home trip (and a genuine business expense)?

If I then fly home from the alps that's most definitely personal.
If I fly to London to visit the client from the alps then that's business?

I'll ask my accountant later when he's finished my SA.

[PerfectStorm]

I think the answer is no, you have to be going back to your own home

[northernladuk]

You've got the fundamentals wrong. It's from your office to the client, not your home......

[Fred Bloggs]

All becomes clear when you apply the "wholly and exclusively in the course of business" test.

[WTFH]

You've got the fundamentals wrong. It's from your office to the client, not your home......

So, if I set up "offices" around the world, e.g. in the Alps, Kenya, South Africa, New Zealand, etc, then could I pick which one is my office for each trip?

[northernladuk]

So, if I set up "offices" around the world, e.g. in the Alps, Kenya, South Africa, New Zealand, etc, then could I pick which one is my office for each trip?

Isn't a mod trolling prof forums a bannable offence?

[WTFH]

Isn't a mod trolling prof forums a bannable offence?

Not really trolling, it's the next logical step from Lance's question.

If the issue is "where is my office?", then the next step is "if I had multiple offices, could I pick and choose?"

I'm reasonably certain the answer is no, that you have one main office you are officially located at, and all others are not considered your main one from the point of view of travelling, but then you could argue that travelling to your different offices is a valid company expense.

I'm sure there are some people who have worked out a way to do it, but I suspect it's either not cost effective and possibly not something HMRC would approve of.

[Lance]

Not really trolling, it's the next logical step from Lance's question.

If the issue is "where is my office?", then the next step is "if I had multiple offices, could I pick and choose?"

I'm reasonably certain the answer is no, that you have one main office you are officially located at, and all others are not considered your main one from the point of view of travelling, but then you could argue that travelling to your different offices is a valid company expense.

I'm sure there are some people who have worked out a way to do it, but I suspect it's either not cost effective and possibly not something HMRC would approve of.

I'm reasonably certain that this will come down to how much of a piss take is it and whether it risks an investigation. I'll not be claiming those flights as I have a low tolerance to risk, and the money it saves isn't worth the risk, but academically I am wondering whether it's a grey area.

What determines an office? The only rules I'm aware of are the temporary/permanent place of work. So the family residence in the alps could easily be a temporary place of work. I would certainly be working while there, using it the same as my home office.

[northernladuk]

Not really trolling, it's the next logical step from Lance's question.

If the issue is "where is my office?", then the next step is "if I had multiple offices, could I pick and choose?"

I'm reasonably certain the answer is no, that you have one main office you are officially located at, and all others are not considered your main one from the point of view of travelling, but then you could argue that travelling to your different offices is a valid company expense.

I'm sure there are some people who have worked out a way to do it, but I suspect it's either not cost effective and possibly not something HMRC would approve of.

Well yes but no. If you start making stuff up that is clearly a piss take there isn't going to be a definitive guide on it. Changing your office to suit your self falls in to the piss take category so you aren't going to get an answer in black and white. You just have to use a bit of common.

Doing a bit of work in a family residence abroad while on holiday and thinking you can claim it falls in to the piss take category.

[malvolio]

I don't see it as a grey area at all. For one thing your home location is normally your registered business address or your home if you use an accommodation address, unless you have a discrete office you pay for. Multiply offices is not an option and if you tried that then the Ramsay principle would apply and HMRC would simply discount all of them.

As for claimable or not, that's been answered; the "wholly, entirely and exclusively" rules makes the distinction. It's up to you as the director to make the decision and to justify it if challenged, but the principles you apply are very clearly labelled.

BTW, pissing about with expenses rules to make a little extra is why they have been specifically excluded form IR35-caught gigs. It wouldn't take too much to widen that restriction further...