Catalonia

[Bean]

A minority of the public wanted it to happen.

"90% of the 2.26 million Catalans who voted on Sunday voted in favour of independence, according to preliminary results released by the region’s government. The region has 5.3 million voters. Officials said 770,000 votes were lost due to disruption which resulted in polling stations being raided by Spanish police."
Source

So, if you include the 'lost votes';

2.26m + 0.77m = 3.03m, which is 57% of registered voters

So how do you define minority?

[northernladyuk]

Self preservation.

Sometimes you need to stand up to illegal police brutality, if you are going about your lawful business.

Well, it's the Spanish government who are claiming that the voters were breaking the law.

We're getting to the bottom of it now, as I've missed this. What law are the Spanish government saying the voters broke?

[northernladyuk]

Erm, you were the first to mention it dumbass!

I asked the question. I didn't claim they were breaking the law. Keep up!

[northernladyuk]

Quoting your quote


The 'public' wanted this vote to happen - so does that mean the government should have banned the police from meeting? LOL

Danger to persons or property?
There's a video of the police smashing some glass doors out there,
pics & vids of police beating people

So the guardia civil, appear to have caused the very reasons listed in your quote -

It appears that a majority of the population wanted a legal vote to happen, not necessarily this vote. It just doesn't follow that it is legal for the police to attack voters.

[SimonMac]

Yes they were. That is exactly what they were doing.

If there is no legal referendum, how can you vote in one? At worst they can be said they are putting a pit of paper in a box, not voting.

No they are not. They are expressing their view on Catalan independence - most of those who voted appear to have voted to secede and some did not. The Catalan Parliament may subsequently attempt to secede and we will see how that plays out. But are you now saying that queuing to cast a vote is sedition?

And there are proper ways for that to be done, in this instance the Spanish national goverment has declared this to be not the proper way

Using bombs would in itself be against various laws. So this is irrelevant to casting votes.

The Basque region tried to do the same with bombs, it hasn't worked for them

The government telling people not to turn up does not make turning up a crime. The government does not make law. What law were they breaking?

Who do you think makes laws then?!

As mentioned earlier, the law that states trying to change the constitution is a crime

What does that have to do with the situation yesterday in Spain?

I am trying to use first hand knowledge and links to the relevant sections of the constitution to make my point rather than conjecture and assumptions.

As said previously I am not an expert on Spanish law (and am not claiming to be) but given I am in the process of looking to see if I can apply for Spanish citizenship it is something that might affect me.

[Bean]

Self preservation.
No. It's appalling.

Well, it's the Spanish government who are claiming that the voters were breaking the law. They've probably got a better grasp on Spanish law than any of us. If the Spanish government were wrong in that regard, I'm sure there are democratic processes available to remedy that. Just as they were when May thought she didn't need to have a vote to parliament concerning Artlcle 50.

I agree somewhat with your first two points, but if everyone follows that mantra - there will be no more protests, on anything, anywhere. Especially when the more autocratic regimes see the supposedly democratic regimes doing this kind of stuff.

That being said, a riot-led crackdown on say, masked protestors at the G8/G20 etc, smashing up banks = proportionate to protect persons and property, but this situation is so far removed from that!

When you think what the previous regime was in Spain - it's a big assumption that they have adequate safeguards like we do, as the oldest democracy yadda yadda

[Benny]

First they came for Benny for trotting out irrelevant, tired clichés, and no-one spoke out, because everyone was relieved.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

HTH BIDI

[BlasterBates]

No she walked into a door!

I found a photo of her being brutally beaten

[SimonMac]

"90% of the 2.26 million Catalans who voted on Sunday voted in favour of independence, according to preliminary results released by the region’s government. The region has 5.3 million voters. Officials said 770,000 votes were lost due to disruption which resulted in polling stations being raided by Spanish police."
Source

So, if you include the 'lost votes';

2.26m + 0.77m = 3.03m, which is 57% of registered voters

So how do you define minority?

Ignoring the fact that you assume 100% of the lost votes were in favour, 3.03 million out of a population of 46.56m is a minority

[NotAllThere]

"90% of the 2.26 million Catalans who voted on Sunday voted in favour of independence, according to preliminary results released by the region’s government. The region has 5.3 million voters. Officials said 770,000 votes were lost due to disruption which resulted in polling stations being raided by Spanish police."
Source

So, if you include the 'lost votes';

2.26m + 0.77m = 3.03m, which is 57% of registered voters

So how do you define minority?

Doesn't really matter. The vote can't possibly have been up to electoral standards. Of the people who didn't turn out, a fair proportion, it seems to me, will have done so because they agree that it's an illegal vote, or they're scared of civil disobedience. People in favour of independence are more likely to be motivated to vote in an illegal poll, then those against. The fact that the government has successfully disrupted a further ~800k votes is the nail in the coffin.

Sometimes you need to stand up to illegal police brutality, if you are going about your lawful business.

Feel free. While you're at it, you can refuse to obey the orders of armed police and get shot. I prefer to argue my rights without risk to life or limb.

We're getting to the bottom of it now, as I've missed this. What law are the Spanish government saying the voters broke?

Dunno. But given the action they've authorised it's pretty clear they're of the opinion some law is being broken somewhere. Or, failing that, that they're legally permitted to take the action they're taking.