Catalonia

[northernladyuk]

Any experts on Spanish law here?

Thought not.

So why are people claiming that the voters were breaking the law?

[SimonMac]

So we're dropping the trespass angle. Fine.

The tresspass was a simple example of the state saying you can't be somewhere and people disobeying it.

Nothing you post says that people can't queue to put their votes in the ballot box. Nothing you post says that the police can use force to stop them queuing to put their votes on the ballot box.

As for the constitution, the simple answer is that the outcome of the vote has no legal status under Spanish Law. That doesn't authorise attacking people who seek to take part in the process.

But they are not queuing to put their votes in the ballot box, they are queuing to overthrow the lawful government, I assume if they were doing it with a bomb rather than the ballot it would be ok to try and stop them, and of course the response (in the first instance) should be proportional.

The response in the first instance in this case was to declare the vote illegal and tell people not to turn up, if people ignore that first response it will then escalate into the horrific scenes we saw yesterday.

As I was not in Spain yesterday, and I assume neither were you I do not know how it went from asking people to not turn up, to battering them with clubs, but as I have worked with UK police a hell of a lot it normally takes a fair bit to get from one stage to the last.

[BlasterBates]

According to huff post, she was treated for sprained fingers, scrapes on her neck and bruising. The kind of thing you're likely to get if you're man-handled by riot police.

If you've any sense, when riot police turn up - leave.

So she fell over.

[SueEllen]

So she fell over.

No she walked into a door!

[Bean]

Quoting your quote

may ban such meetings only when there are well-founded grounds to expect a breach of public order, involving danger to persons or property

The 'public' wanted this vote to happen - so does that mean the government should have banned the police from meeting? LOL

Danger to persons or property?
There's a video of the police smashing some glass doors out there,
pics & vids of police beating people

So the guardia civil, appear to have caused the very reasons listed in your quote -

[SimonMac]

So why are people claiming that the voters were breaking the law?

Erm, you were the first to mention it dumbass!

So who is breaking the law: the people queuing up to put pieces of paper in boxes, or the people deploying batons and rubber bullets to stop them?

[original PM]

See your point, but when intimidation is used (and it is by simply deploying the riot squads) to remove the right to protest - it's not good is it?

No, but coming soon to the rest of the states in the EUSSR.

[SimonMac]

Quoting your quote


The 'public' wanted this vote to happen - so does that mean the government should have banned the police from meeting? LOL

Danger to persons or property?
There's a video of the police smashing some glass doors out there,
pics & vids of police beating people

So the guardia civil, appear to have caused the very reasons listed in your quote -

A minority of the public wanted it to happen.

[NotAllThere]

But if you are behaving within the law, why should you?

Self preservation.

See your point, but when intimidation is used (and it is by simply deploying the riot squads) to remove the right to protest - it's not good is it?

No. It's appalling.

So why are people claiming that the voters were breaking the law?

Well, it's the Spanish government who are claiming that the voters were breaking the law. They've probably got a better grasp on Spanish law than any of us. If the Spanish government were wrong in that regard, I'm sure there are democratic processes available to remedy that. Just as they were when May thought she didn't need to have a vote to parliament concerning Artlcle 50.

[northernladyuk]

But they are not queuing to put their votes in the ballot box

Yes they were. That is exactly what they were doing.

they are queuing to overthrow the lawful government.

No they are not. They are expressing their view on Catalan independence - most of those who voted appear to have voted to secede and some did not. The Catalan Parliament may subsequently attempt to secede and we will see how that plays out. But are you now saying that queuing to cast a vote is sedition?

I assume if they were doing it with a bomb rather than the ballot it would be ok to try and stop them, .

Using bombs would in itself be against various laws. So this is irrelevant to casting votes.

The response in the first instance in this case was to declare the vote illegal and tell people not to turn up, if people ignore that first response it will then escalate into the horrific scenes we saw yesterday.

The government telling people not to turn up does not make turning up a crime. The government does not make law. What law were they breaking?

As I was not in Spain yesterday, and I assume neither were you I do not know how it went from asking people to not turn up, to battering them with clubs, but as I have worked with UK police a hell of a lot it normally takes a fair bit to get from one stage to the last.

What does that have to do with the situation yesterday in Spain?