Catalonia

[Bean]

Ok, re-reading your post, you are correct 57% people voted so that proves there was support of the vote,

Yes, I'm aware

at no point have I denied there was support, the question is around its validity.

A minority of the public wanted it to happen.

Erm.....

I’m sure you can get enough people to say that they want all drugs legalised to be classed as a majority of “something” however as the Catalonians are asking to change the constitution of Spain it would need a majority of the 46m people who live in Spain to vote for it.

A perfect example is the majority of Scots votes to stay in the EU, however it wasn’t want the majority of all people wanted so there views are disregarded

Bad analogy - the entire country voted in the EU referendum and that state (Scotland) overall (when grouping voter choices along lines that didn't exist in the vote choice) was in the minority.

This is a regional referendum (similar to the Indy#1 ref, that would also have altered the UK constitution had the result been different, but to which the rest of the UK didn't get a vote.)

[northernladyuk]

If that is the case, anyone voting or in any way supporting this poll was breaking the law. Presumably to be charged with something like "Attempting to change the constitution by non-constitutional means". Only the Spanish parliament can change the constitution.

So is voting 'No' "attempting to change the constitution by non-constitutional means"?

[Benny]

The next move, I would think, is for the Catalan Parliament is to declare independence, hold another vote to confirm this, and dare the Spanish to disrupt it in the same way. .

Would the outcome not be the same as befell Biafra?

[PurpleGorilla]

Catalonia

Alas I am not quite an expert on Spanish law, but the referendum is an attempt to change the 1978 Constitution (which as I said earlier only the Spanish Government can), also the 1978 Constitution states:



So that is at least two law's broken

Full details of the constitution is available here:

https://www.constituteproject.org/co...11.pdf?lang=en

But force must be proportionate under Article 7 of the ECHR.

http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Convention_ENG.pdf

1 No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed.

[northernladyuk]

Yes, I'm aware




Erm.....





Bad analogy - the entire country voted in the EU referendum and that state (Scotland) overall (when grouping voter choices along lines that didn't exist in the vote choice) was in the minority.

This is a regional referendum (similar to the Indy#1 ref, that would also have altered the UK constitution had the result been different, but to which the rest of the UK didn't get a vote.)

Well done for perseverance. Couldn't be bothered to point that one out myself.

[SimonMac]

Bad analogy - the entire country voted in the EU referendum and that state (Scotland) overall (when grouping voter choices along lines that didn't exist in the vote choice) was in the minority.

This is a regional referendum (similar to the Indy#1 ref, that would also have altered the UK constitution had the result been different, but to which the rest of the UK didn't get a vote.)

(not wanting this to decent in to a Scotland thread however) So why has there not been a second referendum in Scotland even though the devolved government wants one? Because the UK government has not allowed it, the same situation with Spain not allowing one in Catalonia

[PurpleGorilla]

(not wanting this to decent in to a Scotland thread however) So why has there not been a second referendum in Scotland even though the devolved government wants one? Because the UK government has not allowed it, the same situation with Spain not allowing one in Catalonia

If Scotland had an illegal second referendum, should the police beat the tulip out of people who dare to vote?

[northernladyuk]

(not wanting this to decent in to a Scotland thread however) So why has there not been a second referendum in Scotland even though the devolved government wants one? Because the UK government has not allowed it, the same situation with Spain not allowing one in Catalonia

The UK government has no legal power to allow a referendum.

[NotAllThere]

...You'd be handy to have around in a police state.

I'd subvert the organisation from within.

So is voting 'No' "attempting to change the constitution by non-constitutional means"?

Ask a Spanish judge. In any case that's moot, given that the organisers are claiming 99% voting yes.

[northernladyuk]

If Scotland had an illegal second referendum, should the police beat the tulip out of people who dare to vote?

No. The Spanish government is rattled and is deploying paramilitary brutality.