Catalonia

[SimonMac]

yes - you

Care to give examples?

[northernladyuk]

And the majority* only do so by war and vast bloodshed (see Former Yugoslavia/Eritrea and the whole debacle that is the USSR/Russia in the context of Crimea)






*careful to use that word as minority/majority confuse a few people on here

I said it wan't easy. Blood shed is not inevitable and is largely in the control of Spain,

[northernladyuk]

The Catalans only option is to try and gather enough NATIONAL support to affect change to a NATIONAL constitution (which they agreed to in 1978), which I would assume they know they cannot do so it seems they are tulip outta luck.

That is their only option under the Spanish constitution. It is not their only option. They can declare independence and see how it plays out. Their hand is a lot stronger than it was 48 hours ago.

[SueEllen]

I said it wan't easy. Blood shed is not inevitable and is largely in the control of Spain,

Maybe.

I just heard a woman say on the radio neither her or both her parents got ballot papers.

So one reason why not everyone voted is they didn't have ballot papers. So there could be other legal challenges on the legality of the vote.

[SimonMac]

That is their only option under the Spanish constitution. It is not their only option. They can declare independence and see how it plays out. Their hand is a lot stronger than it was 48 hours ago.

Yes they could, they could have done that any time between 1716 and today, but they haven't.... I wonder why?

[Bean]

I was agreeing with you, not saying I was wrong, it is possible to agree with certain points of your argument and still think on the whole you are wrong.

CBA anymore, it's obvious to anyone else reading the thread.

Which is the crux of my argument, the government said no, people ignored that and things escalated to a situation where we can both agree that everyone loses.

The Catalans only option is to try and gather enough NATIONAL support to affect change to a NATIONAL constitution (which they agreed to in 1978), which I would assume they know they cannot do so it seems they are tulip outta luck.

So Scotland need all of the UK to support them before they should have been given a referendum? Rubbish. Please do try and re-read a few of the prior posts.

Scotland agreed to the Act of Union a long time ago......so?

[northernladyuk]

Maybe.

I just heard a woman say on the radio neither her or both her parents got ballot papers.

So one reason why not everyone voted is they didn't have ballot papers. So there could be other legal challenges on the legality of the vote.

The vote is massively flawed both legally and procedurally. But there is no need for a legal challenge. It is illegal under Spanish law. That won't necessarily stop a declaration of independence.

What is needed is a free and fair way of determining the will of the Catalan people, but Spain is determined to stop this, using violence.

[SimonMac]

So Scotland need all of the UK to support them before they should have been given a referendum? Rubbish. Please do try and re-read a few of the prior posts.

Scotland agreed to the Act of Union a long time ago......so?

Scotland, as Catalonia, need the entire country to agree either directly, or indirectly though their government representatives, in Scotlands case it was the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 which allowed sections of the Scotland Act 1998 to be bypassed which ordinarily reserves constitutional matters to Westminster.

[northernladyuk]

Yes they could, they could have done that any time between 1716 and today, but they haven't.... I wonder why?

They've got the best opportunity in history. They are denied a vote by the country they seek to leave. When they tried to vote, that country sent it the paramilitaries with their batons and rubber bullets against civilians queuing up to vote.

[northernladyuk]

Scotland, as Catalonia, need the entire country to agree either directly, or indirectly though their government representatives, in Scotlands case it was the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 which allowed sections of the Scotland Act 1998 to be bypassed which ordinarily reserves constitutional matters to Westminster.

What is a government representative?