Catalonia

[Bean]

Ignoring the fact that you assume 100% of the lost votes were in favour, 3.03 million out of a population of 46.56m is a minority

Actually, I'm just counting them towards those that voted and therefore, if you take part in the vote - it could be logically said, that you support there being a vote.

Their vote choice is irrelevant to my point, although you've missed it - as it disproves your earlier statement

HTH BIKIW

I wasn't aware that 46m people lived in the Catalan region......you learn something new everyday

[NotAllThere]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

HTH BIDI

Oh look. Another repetition of a cliché. Ironic really.

[northernladyuk]

If there is no legal referendum, how can you vote in one? At worst they can be said they are putting a pit of paper in a box, not voting.

I tend to agree. So no need to attack them .

And there are proper ways for that to be done, in this instance the Spanish national goverment has declared this to be not the proper way

That doesn't make queuing to put paper in boxes illegal.

The Basque region tried to do the same with bombs, it hasn't worked for them

What the hell are you talking about? I've already pointed out whya comaprison with using bombs is irrelevant.

Who do you think makes laws then?!

Parliament, not government. If you don't understand this, then you have some reading to do.

As mentioned earlier, the law that states trying to change the constitution is a crime

That doesn't make queuing to put paper in boxes illegal.

I am trying to use first hand knowledge and links to the relevant sections of the constitution to make my point rather than conjecture and assumptions.

Firstly, your first hand knowledge is debatable. I have seen the British police behave mostly very responsibly in this kind of situation. I have occasionally seen them behave illegally in similar situations. Secondly, it is not transferable to how a different force (Guardia Civil is paramilitary) in a different jurisdiction has behaved in a different situation.

[BrilloPad]

Actually, I'm just counting them towards those that voted and therefore, if you take part in the vote - it could be logically said, that you support there being a vote.

Their vote choice is irrelevant to my point, although you've missed it - as it disproves your earlier statement

HTH BIKIW

I wasn't aware that 46m people lived in the Catalan region......you learn something new everyday

On Sunday the Spanish government should have bussed in the other 39 million.....

[Bean]

Doesn't really matter. The vote can't possibly have been up to electoral standards. Of the people who didn't turn out, a fair proportion, it seems to me, will have done so because they agree that it's an illegal vote, or they're scared of civil disobedience. People in favour of independence are more likely to be motivated to vote in an illegal poll, then those against. The fact that the government has successfully disrupted a further ~800k votes is the nail in the coffin.

Well 57% of all registered voters in the Catalan region seeking to take part seems like a good majority.

10% still voted against or abstained, so their was dissent to the majority - amongst those who took part. Since brexit & trump, everyone seems to be keen to ascribe motives and voter choices on those who either don't register, or don't vote - but this isn't logical.

[Mordac]

FTFY

The Scots are not enslaved, you are free to have as many independence referendums as you need and are prepared to pay for, as long as you promise to ditch the Krankie. Seeing her on telly causes a spike in NHS admissions down here...

[NotAllThere]

...As mentioned earlier, the law that states trying to change the constitution is a crime...

If that is the case, anyone voting or in any way supporting this poll was breaking the law. Presumably to be charged with something like "Attempting to change the constitution by non-constitutional means". Only the Spanish parliament can change the constitution.

[SimonMac]

Actually, I'm just counting them towards those that voted and therefore, if you take part in the vote - it could be logically said, that you support there being a vote.

Their vote choice is irrelevant to my point, although you've missed it - as it disproves your earlier statement

HTH BIKIW

I wasn't aware that 46m people lived in the Catalan region......you learn something new everyday

Ok, re-reading your post, you are correct 57% people voted so that proves there was support of the vote, at no point have I denied there was support, the question is around its validity.

I’m sure you can get enough people to say that they want all drugs legalised to be classed as a majority of “something” however as the Catalonians are asking to change the constitution of Spain it would need a majority of the 46m people who live in Spain to vote for it. A perfect example is the majority of Scots votes to stay in the EU, however it wasn’t want the majority of all people wanted so there views are disregarded

[Bean]

On Sunday the Spanish government should have bussed in the other 39 million.....

They could have ferry-shared with the police and got a bargain price trip to Barca

[northernladyuk]

Doesn't really matter. The vote can't possibly have been up to electoral standards. Of the people who didn't turn out, a fair proportion, it seems to me, will have done so because they agree that it's an illegal vote, or they're scared of civil disobedience. People in favour of independence are more likely to be motivated to vote in an illegal poll, then those against. The fact that the government has successfully disrupted a further ~800k votes is the nail in the coffin.

This is indeed a pickle. Spanish police brutality makes it impossible to hold a free and fair election to determine the will of the Catalan people. The next move, I would think, is for the Catalan Parliament is to declare independence, hold another vote to confirm this, and dare the Spanish to disrupt it in the same way. There is a clear justification that self-determination is being blocked. This is not of course a legal justification under Spanish law, but that's revolutions for you. I would say the Catalan separatists have the stomach for this. I wonder if the Spanish government does.

Either way, the Spanish government has screwed this up royally.

Feel free. While you're at it, you can refuse to obey the orders of armed police and get shot. I prefer to argue my rights without risk to life or limb.

You'd be handy to have around in a police state.