Cameron in Europe - Good or Crap?

[AtW]

To stop flow of migrants UK only needs a simple marketing campaign that would compare high cost of living and high taxes in this country vs low wages paid for the jobs most of migrants might only hope to get.

[Waldorf]

Cameron in Europe - Good or Crap?

Gove is a cretin and so are the people behind Leave campaign as him speaking in favour of leaving reflects on them too.

You really are a unpleasant character aren't you. I don't suppose you read Gove's article, made a great deal of sense to me and millions of others.

Your Labour MP, Gisela Stuart is campaigning to LEAVE, so you are calling her a cretin, what does that make you, when in a posting a few months ago, you said you would be making a donation of £10,000 for her to fight the next election!

I think we all know the answer.

[AtW]

Your Labour MP, Gisela Stuart is campaigning to LEAVE, so you are calling her a cretin

If she is campaigning to LEAVE then yes, she (interestingly German-born) is a cretin - West Midlands depend heavily on export of cars into EU and other countries, being outside of EU will be very bad for car manufacturers. This may actually cost her next election if she is not careful.

what does that make you, when in a posting a few months ago, you said you would be making a donation of £10,000 for her to fight the next election!

I'd rather have her win than a Tory scum - anything that costs Tories seats, even if that means getting some other cretin in charge. Perhaps Tory cretins will learn a lesson and be smart boys next time and cut taxes? If not then they should not be in Govt.

If at the time of election some other non-Tory candidate (cretin or not) gets better chances then I'd back them instead - I offer equal opportunities to cretins as long as they are not Tories.

But that £10k in 2020 - I promise it will either go to support local non-Tory candidate or, if I am disgusted with them all, I'll give the money to charity and provide details for your viewing pleasure - assuming here I am not totally broke by Tory scum.

P.S. I'll, obviously, be voting for UK to stay in EU, not least because UK Govt can't be trusted with total unchecked control without higher courts over it or some adult supervision in general.

[xoggoth]

Looks like aTw and Darmstadt have been taken over by the ghost of the "cretin" spouting SASguru. Darmstadt never manages any sensible argument but thought better of you, AtW.

[darmstadt]

Looks like aTw and Darmstadt have been taken over by the ghost of the "cretin" spouting SASguru. Darmstadt never manages any sensible argument but thought better of you, AtW.

Still better than yours

[AtW]

Darmstadt never manages any sensible argument but thought better of you, AtW.

We all have our disappointments in life, mine are Tory Scum Party and Yorkshire puddings.

Even Gidiot got sense to go for staying in EU.

How many of you export to Europe? My company does, and I am certain for fact that it would be a LOT harder to do if UK wasn't in EU, it's bad enough there is different currency in UK, which makes exporting more volatile, but at least barriers ain't that bad.

Neither Gove nor Gisela earn export royalties, they got no clue about how real business is run and its dependency on customers in EU (or elsewhere), they should all STFU and learn how to negotiate better terms within common European framework.

Frankly I don't like all MPs (maybe with a few exceptions), Gisela also - I saw on PMQ with Bliar how she kissed arse Bliar asking clearly planted question, she also voted with Labour to cut funding to Post offices resulting in multiple closures, she voted for ID cards, for Iraq war, AGAINST investigating Iraq war, student top-up fees, it pains me to give even £1 to her, the things one does for the good of the country...

[AtW]

Your Labour MP, Gisela Stuart is campaigning to LEAVE, so you are calling her a cretin

From her wiki page:

"In October 2004, she became the only Labour MP who openly supported the re-election of George W. Bush in that year's US presidential election"

I am sorry, I take my words back - she isn't a cretin

[xoggoth]

You want sensible argument on why UK should stay in EU?

Yes please. Love to hear it.

The only accurate summary of what will happen if we leave the EU that I've read (some time ago, in The Independent I think) was summed up as "nobody really knows". Both sides engage in a lot of speculation and false claims so, as supposedly intelligent contractors, maybe we should use our own common sense and logic.

Take effect on UK economy for example, mentioned in a previous link which was just totally dismissed by D. I have no doubt that, if we leave, some within the EU will try to punish us to deter others from trying to do so. However, if they seek to reduce trade with the UK, a major market for their own products, that will bring huge damage to their own economies too which, at the moment, are in an even worse state than ours. Also, as that link correctly stated, the EU has made trade deals with nations outside of it, so no reason to suppose, once the furore has died down, trade deals can't be made to mutual advantage with the UK.

If you disagree, let's hear some argument, not just cretin calling.

[xoggoth]

Frankly I don't like all MPs (maybe with a few exceptions), Gisela also - I saw on PMQ with Bliar how she kissed arse Bliar asking clearly planted question, she also voted with Labour to cut funding to Post offices resulting in multiple closures, she voted for ID cards, for Iraq war, AGAINST investigating Iraq war, student top-up fees, it pains me to give even £1 to her, the things one does for the good of the country...

Hmmm. I smell vodka. That's an idea! Will go an get one and then I'm up for a vodka-fuelled rant on stinking politicians. Mind you, if you are so cynical (realistic) why do you think are the unelected EU ones any better?

[AtW]

Yes please. Love to hear it.

Simple - UK is doing great within EU and all the tiny problems are mostly due to incompetence of UK Govt.

As you said correctly nobody knows for sure what big problems will happen if UK left EU, granted it will be easier because UK kept its own currency, however what are the really big benefits for UK when it leaves? I can't see any, other than ideological for those who don't realise that the world is very global now and UK needs to be inside a big trading block.

It's not in strategic UK interests to leave EU because of loss of influence with USA, which would in turn prefer to work with France and Germany - if Farage was PM now, then americans would have bent him over and he'd be advocating to stay in UK now.