Cameron in Europe - Good or Crap?

[AtW]

Hmmm. I smell vodka. That's an idea! Will go an get one and then I'm up for a vodka-fuelled rant on stinking politicians. Mind you, if you are so cynical (realistic) why do you think are the unelected EU ones any better?

I have not drunk for some time...

There is no majority control in EU - it's far better than having a majority Govt that can do whatever the hell they want, I have now zero faith in UK Govt - they need some adult supervision, especially on a legal side from European Courts.

As for MPs, why should I like them? Anybody proper successful in life would not want to be one and I despise career politicians, especially if (like Gidiot) all they did was to be born in right family, go to right school, join some party (whichever does not matter) and progress through the ranks - it's the people who can decide in 5 minutes if you or me have to pay suddenly more tax or can't do this or that, all for their own personal objectives of getting elected next time.

[Waldorf]

But that £10k in 2020 - I promise it will either go to support local non-Tory candidate or, if I am disgusted with them all, I'll give the money to charity and provide details for your viewing pleasure - assuming here I am not totally broke by Tory scum.

P.S. I'll, obviously, be voting for UK to stay in EU, not least because UK Govt can't be trusted with total unchecked control without higher courts over it or some adult supervision in general.

I look forward to seeing the evidence, you are already backtracking on what you said a few months ago so by 2020 you'll have some poor excuse at the time.

Of course I'll be voting LEAVE, not least because the EU can't be trusted with total unchecked, undemocratic control.

[darmstadt]

Of course I'll be voting LEAVE, not least because the EU can't be trusted with total unchecked, undemocratic control.

Please provide some proof for this statement

[Waldorf]

There is no majority control in EU - it's far better than having a majority Govt that can do whatever the hell they want, I have now zero faith in UK Govt - they need some adult supervision, especially on a legal side from European Courts.

No majority has resulted in a complete disaster, just look at the Euro, they allowed countries like Greece, Portugal & Cyprus in with no thought to the criteria, so long as it pushes the project along.

The EU cannot make a decision of any importance, their share of world trade is declining, they live a champagne lifestyle on beer money.

The EU will collapse, hopefully we will be out before that happens.
VOTE LEAVE

[AtW]

I look forward to seeing the evidence, you are already backtracking on what you said a few months ago so by 2020 you'll have some poor excuse at the time.

If I give her money now, she might have them spent before General election, then what edge would she get?

Of course I'll be voting LEAVE, not least because the EU can't be trusted with total unchecked, undemocratic control.

EU did not increase my taxes, Tories did (more so than Labour). If anything EU did not do anything bad to me, in fact they kindly allow my business to export reasonably hassle free to all EU member states.

Getting out of UK would make UK Govt totally unchecked, less democratic too - and given that it's UK Govt that matters I say they should not get out from adult supervision anytime soon.

[Waldorf]

Please provide some proof for this statement

Are you joking?

The EU commission (unelected) makes the rules, the EU parliament has no real power, the accounts have not had a clean bill of health for decades, the UK, as with other members, can have laws imposed upon them by majority voting , meaning that we have no power to reject, change laws that we do not want, and more importantly voted for.

[AtW]

No majority has resulted in a complete disaster

Last LibCon Govt was great - it actually reduced Labour taxes from 50% to 45%, which was nice - now majority Tory Scum Govt will have my personal taxes going up by 30% from April - that was totally uncalled for.

[xoggoth]

True enough that a lot of problems are nothing to do with the EU and some laws make sense. There's an awful lot of things that are essential in a purely trade relationship. You can't have one nation undercutting others with lax rules on worker's rights, product standards etc. There is no reason why we can't sign up to agreements of mutual interest without being in the EU. Unfortunately there are also too many unnecessary and very expensive regulations. Did you know, for example there was an EU requirement about switch to digital TV?

The main problem is that Europe has a very diverse economy, so blanket regulations can affect one nation more than others. Banking regulations for example could have far more effect on the UK than on most other nations who could blithely vote in favour of them because it does not affect them much. At all levels of government it makes sense to devolve control downwards as far as possible because there is not uniformity, we have differing needs and requirements. Unfortunately the EU does not have suitable mechanisms for autonomy where it matters.

Never follow this argument about influence. Bit like saying an ant has more influence than a stag Beetle because it's part of a nest. If British interests have already been overridden before we even start negotiating with nations outside the EU, how are they being represented on the global stage?

[darmstadt]

Are you joking?

The EU commission (unelected) makes the rules, the EU parliament has no real power, the accounts have not had a clean bill of health for decades, the UK, as with other members, can have laws imposed upon them by majority voting , meaning that we have no power to reject, change laws that we do not want, and more importantly voted for.

No you are.

• propose legislation which is then adopted by the co-legislators, the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers
• enforce European law (where necessary with the help of the Court of Justice of the EU)
• set a objectives and priorities for action, outlined yearly in the Commission Work Programme and work towards delivering them
• manage and implement EU policies and the budget

They don't 'make' the rules, maybe this little picture might help you understand the way it works: http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...ml#post2210526

[AtW]

Did you know, for example there was an EU requirement about switch to digital TV?

And that's a bad thing???

I am personally really glad there is now referendum on this matter, it needs to be settled exactly like that. Unfortunately it won't stop people whining about the result, but at least there will be a vote and anybody who missed it and failed to vote will have only themselves to blame.

Don't be a Waldork, vote to STAY IN EU!

And that's the Offical message that I approve...