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Contract ending can I furlough?

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    #21
    Originally posted by CatBlack View Post
    I've been contracting through my limited company for nearly ten years. I finished a contract in December 2019 and didn't work at all last year - there was simply no work about (or if there was, I couldn't find it). Is this because of COVID19? Well, it's the first time I've not been able to find a contract since I started contracting, so you decide.

    Anyway, I claimed through the CJRS from April to December and have absolutely no moral qualms about it. The furlough scheme is there to help businesses who have seen their income hit by COVID19. Whether there are decent cash reserves within the company is immaterial; if the government had intended that to be one of the eligibility criteria for the CJRS, they should have made it so.

    The whole reason schemes such as this have clear eligibility criteria and rules is to eliminate unresolvable, subjective arguments about morality and entitlement. As far as I'm concerned, I run my limited company as a bona-fide business. I jump through all the hoops which the government asks me to (running a PAYE scheme, monthly RTI submissions, quarterly VAT submissions, CT60, Companies House Confirmation, etc.), pay all the taxes I'm required to, and claim all the benefits I'm entitled to.

    Otherwise, where do you draw the line? I also borrow books from the local library. Should I stop doing that, and buy them instead, just because I can afford to?
    So, what you're saying is that you spent 4 months looking for work before claiming help and spent the whole year out of work. The OP has just finished a gig - didn't say it was cancelled because of covid, so it sounds like it was simply the expected end of the contract - and is immediately thinking of claiming despite working throughout the past year and so technically not being affected by the bulk of covid measures to date.

    I think your scenario is very different to the OP's.

    Comment


      #22
      Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

      This is just total nonsense. The purpose of the CJRS is to prevent companies laying off staff (i.e. suspending them without pay, or terminating their employment). A company furloughs staff instead of laying them off. Assuming that the OP is an employee of his limited company, he (as company director) is perfectly entitled to furlough himself (as an employee).
      No he's not. If he lays himself off he cannot do any work for his company which is a fundamental rule of furlough. How is he going to find his next gig? He is a contractor, his job is finding new work and then doing that work. If he ends the gig then furloughs himself he'll never find a new gig. What's better? 80% of 800quid a month or him sitting at home on the bench looking for new work like we all do and have done forever.

      He is also not an employee of his company he is an officer.

      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by mogga71 View Post

        I should imagine that many contractors simply don't have accountants any more. Admittedly I only know fellow contractors in Banks .... about 15 of them ... all of them have no accountants (or soon won't) as they have already closed their Company or are in the process of doing so.
        I find that extremely difficult to believe. You can count the number of experienced guys on here doing their own accounting and I've not met a contractor in the workplace that doesn't. If he's worked the last year he should have an accountant.
        'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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          #24
          Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

          So, what you're saying is that you spent 4 months looking for work before claiming help and spent the whole year out of work. The OP has just finished a gig - didn't say it was cancelled because of covid, so it sounds like it was simply the expected end of the contract - and is immediately thinking of claiming despite working throughout the past year and so technically not being affected by the bulkC of covid measures to date.

          I think your scenario is very different to the OP's.
          Correct. If people are on their backs because of Covid then go for it. Take any help that is offered. Not being able to find work for a long period in the middle of the crisis is what the money was for so use it.

          If someone comes to the end of a gig and looks at this as a standard process to pocket some more free cash then no.
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by ladymuck View Post

            So, what you're saying is that you spent 4 months looking for work before claiming help and spent the whole year out of work. The OP has just finished a gig - didn't say it was cancelled because of covid, so it sounds like it was simply the expected end of the contract - and is immediately thinking of claiming despite working throughout the past year and so technically not being affected by the bulk of covid measures to date.

            I think your scenario is very different to the OP's.
            Incorrect. The situations are the same. He is running a business which has no income. He has staff on the payroll who will not be working.

            As for whether his contract has ended "because of COVID", (1) it's not relevant, and (2) who decides? Maybe his client no longer has a requirement because of a COVID-related downturn. Maybe his client's customers/clients are spending less with his client because their customers are not spending as much with them! The economy is totally interconnected. Deciding what is "because of COVID" and what isn't is impossible.

            Comment


              #26
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

              No he's not. If he lays himself off he cannot do any work for his company which is a fundamental rule of furlough. How is he going to find his next gig? He is a contractor, his job is finding new work and then doing that work. If he ends the gig then furloughs himself he'll never find a new gig. What's better? 80% of 800quid a month or him sitting at home on the bench looking for new work like we all do and have done forever.

              He is also not an employee of his company he is an officer.
              Again, you are using the term "laying-off" without seeming to know what it means. Laying somebody off is making them temporarily or permanently redundant without pay. Furlough is the opposite of laying-off. And as for finding a new gig, if he furloughs himself and the next day a recruiter calls him asking "are you interested in this gig?", is he just supposed to put the phone down?!

              He is not an employee but he is on the payroll, and "Office holders" and "Company directors" are both eligible for furlough.

              https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-not-employees

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post
                With any 'benefit' (others can decide if it is a benefit or not) I suppose the first question you should ask yourself is 'Do I need it?'. That said if someone is legally entitled to it they shouldn't be looked down on for taking it, especially as all of us will be expected to repay the debt over the next decade.
                As a counterpoint, in some circumstances it is worth claiming JSA to ensure your state pension period is topped up regardless of the fact you have no job/income. At the current time people may be seeing many life changes that result in a change of contracting from outside IR35 to inside. Not everybody is a long term contractor and many have suffered financial losses, so I don't judge those who go for JSA or with to claim what they are entitled to. Given the amount of tax people, particularly contractors, are going to be paying back soon for many years, despite having received probably no financial help or benefit otherwise and only negativity from fussy clients, far higher taxes and HMRC hoops to jump through, I think that some people are being ignorant in not applying for any help out of some misguided principle.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

                  But he can't as he doesn't meet the criteria as he hasn't laid staff off due to furlough. I don't remember this being a site where we advise people to take the piss.

                  There is a process for claiming a TV and your Netflix through the company but that doesn't mean it's right to do it.

                  If they want good advice on what you should and shouldn't do to minimise your tax properly stick around. If you want advice on how to do anything possible with no rhyme or reason then no, this isn't the place.
                  The OP didn't come here looking for moral guidance (and yes, there's an obvious joke here). He came here looking for an answer to a straightforward question - "can I furlough [myself]".

                  The answer is "yes".

                  Hopefully the vitriol he feels he's received from the usual suspect on here hasn't put him off from making this totally legitimate claim.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by mogga71 View Post
                    Very interesting CatBlack. If you don't mind me asking, how much did you manage to claim each month? If I were in your position, I wouldn't hesitate to claim either.
                    Don't mind at all. I claimed 80% of my £732 salary per month, apart from a couple of months when the amount you could claim was reduced to 60/70%. So all told, about £5½k, which is of course subject to Corporation Tax. Not a fortune, but certainly worth claiming.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

                      Incorrect. The situations are the same. He is running a business which has no income. He has staff on the payroll who will not be working.

                      As for whether his contract has ended "because of COVID", (1) it's not relevant, and (2) who decides? Maybe his client no longer has a requirement because of a COVID-related downturn. Maybe his client's customers/clients are spending less with his client because their customers are not spending as much with them! The economy is totally interconnected. Deciding what is "because of COVID" and what isn't is impossible.
                      He runs a consultancy business where he has to go find work in between. It's part of our model not to have income. Does a shop furlough it's self everytime there isn't a customer in it? It's standard business model, not one that is affected by covid. His situation happened to people last month, last year, 5 years go and back to the beginning . No difference today to any of those situations so not covid related. If this goes on for many more months then average then yes, his business has been affected by covid. The money after he finished his gig then no.
                      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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