Reply to: Contract ending can I furlough?

[michaelC]

The tax man will almost certainly investigate every furlough claim, starting with the big ones and working down.

If thats true, they will finish investigating sometime during the year 60000 as theres over 740k claims every month

[Lance]

Yes you can. I was on furlough from March to May for 2 months then I secured a contract. My accountant told me that I can apply to the furlough schema if I am not invoicing my client(s) anymore. After the end of your contract date you can apply.

I'm sure it's fine. But as a point of note, an accountant is not an expert in this. The accountant has interpreted the letter of the law to mean 'if not invoicing you can furlough'. That is absolutely not what the letter of the law is.
The tax man will almost certainly investigate every furlough claim, starting with the big ones and working down. And their interpretation will be different.

For just over £1000 it might prove not to be worth it.

[thus78]

Yes you can. I was on furlough from March to May for 2 months then I secured a contract. My accountant told me that I can apply to the furlough schema if I am not invoicing my client(s) anymore. After the end of your contract date you can apply.

[PerfectStorm]

I claimed for a period last year due to the extreme circumstances the world was in.

You can claim when you’re not doing work that makes money. Looking for work does not, in itself, make money: we know this because people can spend months looking and not earn a penny.

Claiming if the extraordinary circumstances have affected your likely clients/industry is by the rules.

[mogga71]

I find that extremely difficult to believe. You can count the number of experienced guys on here doing their own accounting and I've not met a contractor in the workplace that doesn't. If he's worked the last year he should have an accountant.

What do you mean ... you find it hard to believe? All the contractors I know work for Banks .... and have worked for various financial institutions for years and will continue to do so meaning its absolutely pointless keeping their LTDs open as all future gigs are going to be outside IR35. They have all either closed down their LTD companies or are in the process of doing so. Why would they need an accountant after they have closed down the Company? All of them had accountants ... none of them did their accounts themselves. Like myself, the last business they needed from their Accountant were the final accounts. Most kicked off the process about May time I believe and were done with their Accountants a month or two later.

I think we went off topic anyway .... I think we got to this point purely because somebody said 'ask your accountant' ... but lots of readers on here won't have accountants now ... but such contractors wouldn't be able to claim anyway.

[jainnode]

If his business has no income, how is it supposed to maintain its workforce?

And I've lost count of the number of times I've pointed out that there is no way anyone can say which businesses have been affected by COVID-19, and which haven't.

it's less than 17, probably.

hth

[CatBlack]

So do you think he can legitimately claim when the first sentence in the guidance says 'If you cannot maintain your workforce because your operations have been affected by coronavirus (COVID-19),'?

If his business has no income, how is it supposed to maintain its workforce?

And I've lost count of the number of times I've pointed out that there is no way anyone can say which businesses have been affected by COVID-19, and which haven't.

[northernladuk]

It is not for me or anyone else to judge. If you are entitled to something you are entitled to something. I find it curious people on this thread who no doubt pay themselves the minimun amount through PAYE to reduce tax are criticising someone legitimately claiming through a government scheme.

So do you think he can legitimately claim when the first sentence in the guidance says 'If you cannot maintain your workforce because your operations have been affected by coronavirus (COVID-19),'?

[SussexSeagull]

As a counterpoint, in some circumstances it is worth claiming JSA to ensure your state pension period is topped up regardless of the fact you have no job/income. At the current time people may be seeing many life changes that result in a change of contracting from outside IR35 to inside. Not everybody is a long term contractor and many have suffered financial losses, so I don't judge those who go for JSA or with to claim what they are entitled to. Given the amount of tax people, particularly contractors, are going to be paying back soon for many years, despite having received probably no financial help or benefit otherwise and only negativity from fussy clients, far higher taxes and HMRC hoops to jump through, I think that some people are being ignorant in not applying for any help out of some misguided principle.

It is not for me or anyone else to judge. If you are entitled to something you are entitled to something. I find it curious people on this thread who no doubt pay themselves the minimun amount through PAYE to reduce tax are criticising someone legitimately claiming through a government scheme.

[northernladuk]

I think we should just state what the law is and let individuals decide if its morally acceptable.

Besides, its no different to contractors/permies taking money from their client/employer whilst surfing/making personal calls during their working hours. And let's be honest, this is far more costly, as its done over years.

But it's not quite as black and white as that. What is the law? the criteria or the fact there is a process she can claim?. He can claim furlough by ignoring the criteria but there is a chance if he does get picked up on it he'll lose so there is a risk. The law is he can't claim it as he isn't laying staff off due to covid, but as you can see everyone interprets that differently.

Your example isn't a good one though. We've had it mentioned a few times on here about contractors getting in trouble for this so it does happen. And IMO it is different. One is (arguably) claiming money from the gov you are not due, the other is doing what everyone in the world does and clients are ok with it to a point. Not a good comparison at all. A better one is my one about claiming expenses that are not business related. You can do it if you ignore the criteria but it comes with a risk it could go south. Do we advise newbies they can claim their family holidays because the process is there or do we tell they can't because it doesn't meet the criteria?

So I don't think telling him to follow the process to do it without guiding him about what is right or wrong about it is good advice. As you can see with the spat between myself and Cat the law isn't very clear and then nor is the interpretation. Nothing to do with morally acceptable.

What we can do is point out that the OP is not in a position to claim it yet but sometime down the line when he is clearly affected by covid he can

But I've not shut have I. I'll shut up now.

[ContractorBanking]

I think we should just state what the law is and let individuals decide if its morally acceptable.

Besides, its no different to contractors/permies taking money from their client/employer whilst surfing/making personal calls during their working hours. And let's be honest, this is far more costly, as its done over years.

[northernladuk]

the problem is that as director you can furlough yourself - being affecetd by covid is subjective - In this case you can argue that not having a new job on friday to start on monday means you cant continue and should furlough yourself

I am of the view that all directors can furlough themselves with little come back - Moral aside that is the law

It is the law if you meet the criteria but you do make the point it's subjective... but what is also the law is that while on furlough you cannot do any work for the business. That includes gig hunting. Not the best situation for a contractor.

[NowPermOutsideUK]

the problem is that as director you can furlough yourself - being affecetd by covid is subjective - In this case you can argue that not having a new job on friday to start on monday means you cant continue and should furlough yourself

I am of the view that all directors can furlough themselves with little come back - Moral aside that is the law

[CatBlack]

Did you join the forum just for this argument?

No, I joined this forum because the OP needed help, and having been in exactly the same situation as him I was able to offer some. Or at least, I would have been able to, if you and your mate hadn't driven him off with your usual BS.

Who's sockie are you?

I don't know what you're talking about. Unlike you two I don't spend my life on here so I don't know all your buzzwords.

[Lance]

Just because you keep saying that, it doesn't mean you've won the argument.

equally, just because you started an argument, and are still banging on, doesn't mean you won.

Did you join the forum just for this argument? Who's sockie are you?