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Contract ending can I furlough?

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    #31
    Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

    Again, you are using the term "laying-off" without seeming to know what it means. Laying somebody off is making them temporarily or permanently redundant without pay. Furlough is the opposite of laying-off. And as for finding a new gig, if he furloughs himself and the next day a recruiter calls him asking "are you interested in this gig?", is he just supposed to put the phone down?!

    He is not an employee but he is on the payroll, and "Office holders" and "Company directors" are both eligible for furlough.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-not-employees
    Laying off/furlough whatever. He has a job to do. It is to find new work. He turns from an IT specialist to a salesman.

    He's not supposed to put the phone down. He's supposed to not go on furlough and continue doing his job.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #32
      Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

      The OP didn't come here looking for moral guidance (and yes, there's an obvious joke here). He came here looking for an answer to a straightforward question - "can I furlough [myself]".

      The answer is "yes".

      Hopefully the vitriol he feels he's received from the usual suspect on here hasn't put him off from making this totally legitimate claim.
      And I argue the answer is no. He does not meet the basic criteria of being impacted by covid therefore he should not be progressing. If he asked, is there a process to claim furlough then the answer is yes, with a caveat that it is only for companies that need to lay staff off on pay. He is not in this situation.... yet.

      The very first page at the top of the the furlough page states...

      If you cannot maintain your workforce because your operations have been affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant to cover a portion of their usual monthly wage costs where you record them as being on furlough.
      Does he meet the criteria in the first sentence? Does he buggery... end of story. No furlough. It's there in black and white.

      Is I mentioned before. It's like saying 'Can I expense my families luxury holiday to Disneyland through the company' The answer is yes. The process is there. Go back a step and you'll find guidance saying only business expenses can be put through the company so the answer is no.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        Does a shop furlough it's self [sic] everytime [sic] there isn't a customer in it?
        That's an absurd analogy.

        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        It's standard business model, not one that is affected by covid. His situation happened to people last month, last year, 5 years go and back to the beginning . No difference today to any of those situations so not covid related
        So you're saying that, because contractors by nature sometimes have work and sometimes don't, that no contractor can claim to have been financially affected by COVID-19?

        Anyway, as I keep saying, whether or not his business's lack of income is due to COVID-19 doesn't matter. He is entitled to claim. Whether you believe is is morally right to do so or not is not relevant, and believe it or not, not very interesting.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by CatBlack View Post
          That's an absurd analogy.
          It's a bit far fetched but it underlines the fact that a business doesn't not always have income coming in and when it doesn't it isn't because of covid. It's how that business works. No income does not mean affected by covid. No business over a long time where you could have before then deffo yes. Friday to monday furlough no.
          So you're saying that, because contractors by nature sometimes have work and sometimes don't, that no contractor can claim to have been financially affected by COVID-19?

          Anyway, as I keep saying, whether or not his business's lack of income is due to COVID-19 doesn't matter. He is entitled to claim. Whether you believe is is morally right to do so or not is not relevant, and believe it or not, not very interesting.
          I've never said that and I've been very clear. In your situation you can claim, you've been affected. Him finishing a gig at the end of March and claiming covid relief on Monday no.

          He's not entitled to claim. because he doesn't meet the requirements

          'If you cannot maintain your workforce because your operations have been affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant to cover a portion of their usual monthly wage costs where you record them as being on furlough.'
          'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

          Comment


            #35
            Let's be clear here. This is about a business finishing work on Friday and going straight on to Covid relief on Monday. There has to be a period where you can prove your business has been impacted. Once you do you can claim, not on the Monday after a naturally expiring gig. It's as simple as that.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              He does not meet the basic criteria of being impacted by covid
              Says who? How is "impacted by COVID" defined? The entire economy, and everyone within it, is "impacted by COVID".

              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              If he asked, is there a process to claim furlough then the answer is yes, with a caveat that it is only for companies that need to lay staff off on pay. He is not in this situation.... yet.
              Says who? Who decides whether a business "needs to lay off staff"? If a business has cash reserves it could use to pay staff not to work, does that mean it shouldn't claim? If a business has no cash reserves, but could borrow the money to pay its staff not to work, does that mean it shouldn't claim? Even if that meant that this time next year, when the CJRS scheme has ended, it would be paying back the loan with no income, and similar companies which had claimed this allowance were flourishing?

              Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
              Is I mentioned before. It's like saying 'Can I expense my families luxury holiday to Disneyland through the company' The answer is yes. The process is there. Go back a step and you'll find guidance saying only business expenses can be put through the company so the answer is no.
              Another false analogy. Claiming a business grant you are legally entitled to is not the same as putting non-business expenses through the company.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
                Let's be clear here. This is about a business finishing work on Friday and going straight on to Covid relief on Monday. There has to be a period where you can prove your business has been impacted.
                I'm very clear, there is no requirement to prove that your business has been impacted, and anyway there is no way of knowing whether his contract coming to an end is because of COVID or not.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

                  Says who? How is "impacted by COVID" defined? The entire economy, and everyone within it, is "impacted by COVID".
                  Because every contractor since the beginning of time leaves a gig on the Friday and has to start looking for work on the Monday (leaving dovetailed gigs aside for the moment). It's our business model. He is not impacted by covid on the Monday and difficult to argue he has until a reasonable length of time has passed. We've got the state of the market thread that's been talking about difficulty of getting work well before covid hit.

                  Says who? Who decides whether a business "needs to lay off staff"? If a business has cash reserves it could use to pay staff not to work, does that mean it shouldn't claim? If a business has no cash reserves, but could borrow the money to pay its staff not to work, does that mean it shouldn't claim? Even if that meant that this time next year, when the CJRS scheme has ended, it would be paying back the loan with no income, and similar companies which had claimed this allowance were flourishing?
                  But go back to the OP's situation. His job is to find work. He isn't in a position to lay himself off. His staff are key to finding more work. You only lay of people that aren't needed to continue the business. He's needed but the busines. He can furlough his wife if he wants as she isn't but don't get me going on that one.

                  Another false analogy. Claiming a business grant you are legally entitled to is not the same as putting non-business expenses through the company.
                  No it's not. There is a process to do both but both should only be used should certain criteria be met. In both cases they aren't.
                  'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by CatBlack View Post

                    I'm very clear, there is no requirement to prove that your business has been impacted, and anyway there is no way of knowing whether his contract coming to an end is because of COVID or not.
                    What bit of ' cannot maintain your workforce because your operations have been affected by coronavirus' does he meet?
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Anyway I'm done. This is gonna get locked and infractions handed out soon so let's leave it. In my opinion he shouldn't claim and if he does it's a piss take. Yours is he can.

                      That's very nice.

                      Thread closed.
                      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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