State of the Market

[TheDude]

It's a sorry state of affairs that people in this country are compelled to relocate because government has destroyed their income opportunities

Brexit destroyed income opportunities and people voted for it including many on these forums.

[TheDude]

My previous contract position has come back on the market after I reached the two year engagement limit last year and despite the best efforts of my hiring manager I was unable to be extended further.

Internal recruiter mentioned that there is favourable feedback on record so hopefully my application will progress. Unfortunately process has to be followed so there will be interviews assuming I am still of interest to them.

[GJABS]

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Herman, a major driver of the decline in the number of contract roles in the UK is the fact that many roles can be done remotely, and there are large numbers of IT workers in India who are much cheaper than us in the UK. Does this not also apply to contract roles in the EU? Aren't you guys in the EU not also being undercut by the Indians?

[SussexSeagull]

However, when I read this thread I am a bit dissapointed in my fellow contracters and wonder if they ever were really contrators or had only become "disguised employees" by chance and were never really cut out for the title contractor in the first place. If I could find really well-paying contracts in Germany in the early 2000's as a non-EU citizen, whay can't you?

For one thing not everyone can just up sticks and go abroad. Certainly I have applied for roles in Ireland and Denmark and was knocked back on both occasions for not being a EU citizen.

I have worked away from home around the UK before and it would probably be as quick to get back from most of Europe as parts of the UK so it certainly holds no fears for me.

[SussexSeagull]

Complete offshoring of IT by EU companiesis pretty much unheard of. They are just too conservative to try and to smart to think it will work.

The UK very much subscribes to the Anglo Saxon Capitalism model of free markets where off shoring is seen as a way to save money, although with Starmer saying the era of Globalisation is over and Farage very much reading from the Trump hymn sheet that might change over the next few years.

I suspect the French, Germans, etc. would think it absolutely ludicrous to sacrifice it's own industries at the altar of short term gain.

[Protagoras]

The UK very much subscribes to the Anglo Saxon Capitalism model of free markets

Except where Govt decides that private firms need to be 'bailed out' by taxpayers in the process known as 'socialisation of losses' usually associated with cuts and tax rises to ensure the asset-owing classes are protected.

[SussexSeagull]

Except where Govt decides that private firms need to be 'bailed out' by taxpayers in the process known as 'socialisation of losses' usually associated with cuts and tax rises to ensure the asset-owing classes are protected.

At the time of the banking crises they didn't really have much choice (although the government sold it's final shares in Nat West the other week, cashing out at a mere loss of £10 billon) and they have decided the steel industry needs to be saved for national security reasons. Which does kind of fit in with what I said about the mood music changing.

[SussexSeagull]

Maybe it's just me coming from a country that is bigger than all of Europe. My parents lived 14 hours from me and for some years 21 hours. When I had time off, it would be nothing to drive a motorcycle 14 hours to visit my parents. When they lived 21 hours away, it was nothing to get a plane and fly 3 hours. For the last 7 years of my father's working life, he got on a plane on Monday and flew 3 1/2 hours to his office on the West coast. He was home for dinner with my mom every Friday.

I've worked with a great many UK contractor who flew to Budapest, Milan, Frankfurt or Bratislava on Monday and flew back on Friday. Much of Europe is 2 - 2 1/2 hours from London. IN my mind, that is in no way "abroad" but rather a short trek to Europe. Flying to Thailand is for me "going abroad".

I recall one guy who cried the blues because he "missed his son sooo much" and his wife "just hated him not being at home". He had two choices. Work his well-paying contract or stay at home. When you're paying a mortgage and putting food on the table, you gotta do what you gotta do. You just need to be bold enough and you need to be hungry enough.



Ok, you applied for a couple of roles. Have you not considered acquiring EU residency? I mentioned many ways to do so above (and just learned today the easy Slovakia route has not yet been closed - it's still in debate in parliament). I have found most companies don't care about EU citizenship as long as you have EU residency and an established company. The "Van der Elst" court ruling dates back before 2000 and that stated as long as you are an EU resident and working for an established company based in the EU, you have no issues whatsoever to work in an EU country you are not resident in provided your company is paying you and not the client. I have done work in Budapest after being screened and showing them my no longer valid German permanent residency (I was 2 years into my UK residency at the time). They accepted that without an argument.



Ok, no fear. But from what you tell me you have not found your way around the simple question "are you an EU citizen?". I know my advice may seem a bit condescending - that's my nature. But I am a contracter. Since 1992. This is a 1400 page thread about the state of the market but I see few comments on all these pages saying "I've put on my big boy pants and found a way to do the un-doable and go to the work when none is currently coming to me. And do it as a contractor.

If one contractor here takes my advice and works with it, I've done them a favour. If not, you might as well just remove the word contractor from this website. Or better yet, just close the thing down.

Call me an a-hole if you want. I can really be that when I want to. But if you take my advice, I have no issues flying an hour or two to meet you somewhere in Europe where you can thank me by buying me a beer.

Have a good evening and I wish all those not working are able to return to the contracting world one day soon. You are my contractor bretheren and there is nothing like putting a little bit back into the community.

I don't think any the less of you for anything you have said but equally I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to go abroad and work as they quite possibly have other commitments including children.

Also 1994 is different to 2025 and other countries round Europe such as France and Spain have worse unemployment than we do at the moment.

[fiisch]

I follow this thread with interest but by page 1,374 this thread has all gotten a bit depressing, but for balance I have to say this does not mirror my experience of contracting in London at all in recent years.

All of my contacts who've had gigs end recently have jumped straight into another role, and I'd argue Brexit actually helped the contract market (certainly in my space as a BA in Finance/Insurance) as it spun up a lot of additional project work.

If anything there are more roles and rates are 30 - 50% higher than they were when I got my first couple of London contracts in 2017-18, and still many roles that are outside IR35.

There are always headwinds, political turbulence, economic uncertainty that people can point to and highlight that things are changing for the worse. But as contractors many of us work in change - roles change, demand for certain skills change, the law and tax landscape changes. Surely as contractors who embrace the idea of working in a new office every 12-18 months, changing market conditions should be viewed as an opportunity rather than heralded as the end of contracting and Britain as we know it?!

[agentzero]

herman_g is a lot more generous than me with broadcasting advice. There has been a lot of talk over the years of IR35 separating the contractors from the temp staff. Contractors: outside ir35, temp staff: inside ir35.

I would add that the prospect of going to efforts to make yourself appealing in the EU is a necessary step to exist as a contractor and those who won't will find excuses and reasons not to, because they don't want to. Everybody has a limit and there are reasons why, although children isn't really one of them. You can afford good schooling in many countries. The UK was exceptional in education decades ago, that is no longer the case.

There is always lots of talk of reasons not to move, citing invalid unemployment figures or GDP of other countries. If a country has a good market for your skills, none of that matters. People are full of excuses. There are international country rankings, maybe that will help some people: https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/