State of the Market

[SussexSeagull]

I don't know what happened to this forum. It used to be a really positive place I would come to when I was feeling down and out. The folks here were supportive of each other (though one or people used to get a hard time but they deserved it).

Now it's just full of negativity and gloom. Too bad.

To offer context, I am a life long Labour voter who believes that in the grand scheme of things immigration has been a benefit to this country.

This isn't the place to discuss wider immigration but over the last couple of decades the amount of IT Professionals coming over from (mainly) India was way over the top and business was basically offered a free run to import resource and not either pay the going rate or train their own people. In the last but one contract I had about half the team were born in India.

It's nothing against the individuals involved as they are mainly really talented and very nice people and they deserve the benefits of moving to this country legally but it has meant there are more people looking for work in a downtown.

If that is negative then I am sorry because it is also true.

[SussexSeagull]

I appreciate that there is a wider downturn but there are still roles out there. I am about to move from one contract to another on a decent outside IR35 rate. Another programme awhere I was at got canned and the programme manager who was let go when that happened walked straight into another role. The programme manager I am going to work with at the new place went straight into that role from somewhere else and another colleague of mine has just got a new contract after a month of looking. All in the insurance PM space.

I am sure there are still pockets of the industry where there is demand but once the apparatus of contracting starts to be dismantled it could possibly start moving into the past and not become a consideration for business anymore.

[SussexSeagull]

I am disputing this. There is more work around it's just not in the UK. Many, many contractors worked the whole single market of the EU and most of them have headed home and created a glut.

And, since Boris built a Berlin wall around your country, nobody has found a way over that wall and all the excess brain power is sitting idle. Even my immigration lawyer who I just used to get my permenant residence status tells me there just aren't the UK workers are a loss to the European economy that has not been filled and left a big hole in the supply side of the equation.

No new equilibrium has been established. And, hence far too many are sitting idle.

You are aware that you are on a UK based contracting message board, aren't you?

I am repeating myself so will say this for the last time: There are still several hoops people need to jump through to go and work in the EU which might not lead to work at the end and it isn't suitable for everyone.

[jamesbrown]

since Boris built a Berlin wall around your country

Chuckle.

[SussexSeagull]

Whatever. I'll let you get back to your BBC Antiques Roadshow. Just make sure your TV license payments are up to date.

Maybe you can go browse the charity shops for some Tifanny Lamps when it's done.

Was there any real need for that?

I have debated you on the issue and arguments involved and you resort to personal insults.

[avonleigh]

I am disputing this. There is more work around it's just not in the UK. Many, many contractors worked the whole single market of the EU and most of them have headed home and created a glut.

And, since Boris built a Berlin wall around your country, nobody has found a way over that wall and all the excess brain power is sitting idle. Even my immigration lawyer who I just used to get my permenant residence status tells me there just aren't any amount of UK workers around anymore. She told me it's a loss to the European economy that has not been filled, leaving a big hole in the supply side of the equation.

No new equilibrium has been established. And, hence far too many are sitting idle.

Can you actually provide hard evidence of this? I monitor jobserve and there is not loads of jobs in Europe as you make out. It's probably a little better than UK but not a lot. Unless these companies have suddenly shifted to a new platform that I am not aware of.

[GJABS]

This.
Good on Herman, Fiisch and others for sharing some of the positive dynamics of the current market in the UK.

I haven't experienced the uplift that Herman has since 2017, but doing roughly the same.
The roles I get offered are almost always outside IR35, and I have been working continuously for what seems like bloody ever.

I see a surprising resiliance on this forum against positive advice and information.
Lots of posters, some unemployed for years seem determined that there is no market, it's not them and there is nothing they can do. Ever.

This provides you with a business opportunity, I would suggest. You could use your apparently-superior knowledge and attitudes to set up the infrastructure and marketing etc to allow us "unemployed for years" posters to be able to work again. Given the large number of out of work contractors in the UK, if you could do this at scale then you could make a lot more money than you are currently making in your present tech roles by taking a commission on each role secured.

[Dorkeaux]

This provides you with a business opportunity, I would suggest. You could use your apparently-superior knowledge and attitudes to set up the infrastructure and marketing etc to allow us "unemployed for years" posters to be able to work again. Given the large number of out of work contractors in the UK, if you could do this at scale then you could make a lot more money than you are currently making in your present tech roles by taking a commission on each role secured.

That's dark, and sad.
I've said before, I don't rate my skills any higher than most of my colleagues.
My network of contacts is average at best, and I'm quite old.
However, I am pretty positive and pretty good at finding work.

Posters trying to share their experiences and advice aren't trying to goad you nor brag. Why would they?

[SussexSeagull]

That's dark, and sad.
I've said before, I don't rate my skills any higher than most of my colleagues.
My network of contacts is average at best, and I'm quite old.
However, I am pretty positive and pretty good at finding work.

Posters trying to share their experiences and advice aren't trying to goad you nor brag. Why would they?

This isn't directed at you but people who have had some success or know people who have telling their story and how it might help others is always welcome and I am absolutely sure some people and pockets of the industry have sailed through this downturn relatively unscathed. In those examples they are probably entrenched in an industry or sector that they have a good reputation in. For those of us not so fortunate, and I use that word unapologetically because fate plays a hand in even the best managed career, that isn't am option for us and even if it was would be chasing the same contracts as them, not creating new ones.

Plus some people could do with being a bit more sensitive in the current environment. Contractors with several decades experience are facing having to change direction, which may have a sizeable impact on their lives.

[GJABS]

That's dark, and sad.
I've said before, I don't rate my skills any higher than most of my colleagues.
My network of contacts is average at best, and I'm quite old.
However, I am pretty positive and pretty good at finding work.

Posters trying to share their experiences and advice aren't trying to goad you nor brag. Why would they?

If you define "skills" both in terms of on the job and being able to acquire new work, your skills in the latter are by definition better than many of us on here - because you are finding work, so you claim, and we are not. Yes it is in many respects dark and sad from our perspective, because we are seeing a reality that is rather bleak.