State of the Market

[hgllgh]

Yup, Brexit init.

I don't believe its brexit as much as the new IR35 rules that appear to have put the frightners up the entire contract market.

[ladymuck]

Based on other posts, this. Might be a chapette though.

Tarbie is definitely in touch with his feminine side, and the side of many females too

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Would you rather go permie or take a contract inside ir35?

Permie. No point in contracting inside IR35 - worst of all worlds - especially as rates aren't improving, and despite rumours I see no premium being offered for inside.

[BR14]

'go permie' seems to be some kind of mantra here.

where are all these permie jobs you can just walk into at will?

and a £120k/pa contract under a brolly gives you <>£75k clear, where a permie equivalent gives £75k gross.

ok, with some perks, but also with all the HR bollocks and the office politics.

maybe i'm missing something?

[Paralytic]

Permie. No point in contracting inside IR35 - worst of all worlds - especially as rates aren't improving and despite rumours I see no premium being offered for inside.

I overheard a conversation last week with two middle-managers talking about the contractors and the impact of IR35. I just caught the end of it (wish I'd tuned in earlier) but there was definitely the mention of an increase of 20% in rates to compensate. I'd also previously heard the approach might that contractors either go perm or go via umbrella (ie. no IR35 assessment needed for the client as no-one is being extended into the April 2020 timeline). I guess it could be that people are offered Umbrella with 20% uplift, which I don't think will be the worst offer in the market come next April.

Might all turn out to be rumours, but interesting nonetheless. There's been no formal notification on when any comms will take place.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Last clientco had me sitting near a person who appeared to be doing all the planning for the new rules.

Had to really bite my lip with all the nonesense they wer coming out with but basically the short version was that they think they have a lot of permatractors and they are terminating them all.

Almost no-one is getting an inside IR35 offer and almost no-one will be offered an outside IR35 gig. Despite all the available data about how to make proper determinations etc, they are just making a blanket decision. They are mostly offering permie roles (and at pretty average salaries too).

I don't imagine it's that rare for large organisations to have a loud-mouthed ignoramus (as this person is) running their IR35 project so I am seriously considering a spell of permidom.

[Paralytic]

I don't imagine it's that rare for large organisations to have a loud-mouthed ignoramus (as this person is) running their IR35 project so I am seriously considering a spell of permidom.

I seriously think the number of companies who do a proper role-by-role analysis will be in the small minority, and those will largely be with the smaller clients (ie. not having hundreds of contractors)

Others will do blanket inside determinations (but obviously not admit to it) or (more likely IMO) blanket "no more contractors" enforcement with contractors asked to moved to Umbrellas or some offered perm roles (with the exact decision delegated to middle-management cost-centre owners).

A few business critical people (not roles) might be identified and exceptions made.

The market will determine where rates end up. I don't expect any increase initially, until things settle down.

I'll post lottery numbers tomorrow.

[simes]

What market are you in ?

Media and Telco, largely.

[GhostofTarbera]

Media and Telco, largely.

Cheers, will try that thanks


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[KinooOrKinog]

'go permie' seems to be some kind of mantra here.

where are all these permie jobs you can just walk into at will?

and a £120k/pa contract under a brolly gives you <>£75k clear, where a permie equivalent gives £75k gross.

ok, with some perks, but also with all the HR bollocks and the office politics.

maybe i'm missing something?

I suppose 120k on an inside contract would assume you only take 20 days holiday a year, that you're continuously in contract all year every year, that you're never ill & that you never have to take any other time off for things that sometimes happen. But I do agree with you, it's not always as easy as 'just get a permie role'