State of the Market

[sira]

Had a 1st round interview for a role at a Hedge Fund last week, which went perfect (and numerous factors on my side e.g. manager is mates with my old manager, good references, niche experience etc.). Agency called me the very next day to pencil in 2nd round with CEO & CFO but now today the agency told me a few candidates offering to work for 50% cheaper have been put into the 1st round, so I have to wait on the sidelines. <modsnip>

I suspect firms will continue taking advantage of the abundant supply for the next few years.

[ladymuck]

"2X NEW CONTRACT ROLES - DO YOU KNOW ANYONE IN YOUR NETWORK?

Junior Software Developer, 3 month contract with remote working paying up to £120 per day INSIDE IR35 (through umbrella)

I am currently recruiting for recent grads or junior developers that have experience with either PHP or CFML. "

Trouble is, some sucker will go for it

[GhostofTarbera]

Had a 1st round interview for a role at a Hedge Fund last week, which went perfect (and numerous factors on my side e.g. manager is mates with my old manager, good references, niche experience etc.). Agency called me the very next day to pencil in 2nd round with CEO & CFO but now today the agency told me a few candidates offering to work for 50% cheaper have been put into the 1st round, so I have to wait on the sidelines.

I suspect firms will continue taking advantage of the abundant supply for the next few years.

Wait till after new year (new uk visa rules) when everyone from all over the world can apply also - grab 50% now


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[NowPermOutsideUK]

Had a 1st round interview for a role at a Hedge Fund last week, which went perfect (and numerous factors on my side e.g. manager is mates with my old manager, good references, niche experience etc.). Agency called me the very next day to pencil in 2nd round with CEO & CFO but now today the agency told me a few candidates offering to work for 50% cheaper have been put into the 1st round, so I have to wait on the sidelines. <modsnip>

I suspect firms will continue taking advantage of the abundant supply for the next few years.

50% discount for a hedge fund role? Seriously? You mean low latency and exchange trading is now no longer 650 but more like 325 in london and presumably inside ir35?

Goodness gracious me - But for the grace of god go i

[hugebrain]

50% discount for a hedge fund role? Seriously? You mean low latency and exchange trading is now no longer 650 but more like 325 in london and presumably inside ir35?

Goodness gracious me - But for the grace of god go i

That's still over two grand a day if you work 7 and a half hour days though. At least I hope that's what you meant.

[fiisch]

Mixed emotions this week as I go back on the hunt for a new contract.

Existing deal ends next Friday - murmurings of an extension and potentially a permanent offer with existing client (yes, I know), which frustratingly has delayed my usual process for finding a new contract. Now the trail seems to have gone cold at existing client re.: any extension/perm offer, and considering maybe it is time to move on.

Couple of interviews lined up for next week, which is promising - one perm, one inside role, and hoping for a third. Definitely some vacancies around in my area (BA), but few companies seem to be in a particular hurry, and I've seen some roles stick around for months suggesting either client is being very picky or it's not a "real" need.

Being told "market has picked up"; "market is dead" and everything in between, so I guess it depends who you talk to!

Good look to everyone on the bench - I'm downing tools applying for new roles now until the New Year, and will see what comes over the next couple of weeks.

Seems to be an unusually busy time for this time of year - now have 5 interviews planned before Christmas:

1. Existing client with some kind of perm offer. Enjoyed working for them, but they seem to want to make me doing the running (i.e.: me booking meeting with hiring manager etc.), and have left it very late in the day for an "interview". With IR35 minefield to contend with, I'm thinking this isn't the best option;

2. FTC (I know), but with a prestigious company in my industry, so good CV builder;

3. Inside IR35 role, but I've seen the job spec doing the rounds for awhile, and the interview was booked in a fortnight ago, so I'm a bit dubious - in my experience with contracting, if something is going to happen, it happens quickly;

4. Inside IR35 role, same rate as 3., but with a previous employer (I was a permie) where I was probably happiest in my career. Not interviewing until middle of next week, bizarrely;

5. Second interview for perm role. Job sounds appealing from the first interview and I think there would be good progression opportunities...

So will either be a very happy or very miserable Christmas, depending on the next few days! Apologies for the humblebrag - I've suffered from serious imposter syndrome previously, so this is a refreshing position to be in for me! As a fairly inexperienced contractor, anyone else looking should take heart, as suggests there's been an uptick in roles in the last week or so (at least, in IT Financial Services sector).

Been using umbrella calculators for back-of-fag-packet estimates of take home for inside IR35, but well aware these calculators are usually sexed up. Any rough calculation I can use to compare "real" Inside IR35 Day Rate with a Perm Salary?

[GhostofTarbera]

Seems to be an unusually busy time for this time of year - now have 5 interviews planned before Christmas:

1. Existing client with some kind of perm offer. Enjoyed working for them, but they seem to want to make me doing the running (i.e.: me booking meeting with hiring manager etc.), and have left it very late in the day for an "interview". With IR35 minefield to contend with, I'm thinking this isn't the best option;

2. FTC (I know), but with a prestigious company in my industry, so good CV builder;

3. Inside IR35 role, but I've seen the job spec doing the rounds for awhile, and the interview was booked in a fortnight ago, so I'm a bit dubious - in my experience with contracting, if something is going to happen, it happens quickly;

4. Inside IR35 role, same rate as 3., but with a previous employer (I was a permie) where I was probably happiest in my career. Not interviewing until middle of next week, bizarrely;

5. Second interview for perm role. Job sounds appealing from the first interview and I think there would be good progression opportunities...

So will either be a very happy or very miserable Christmas, depending on the next few days! Apologies for the humblebrag - I've suffered from serious imposter syndrome previously, so this is a refreshing position to be in for me! As a fairly inexperienced contractor, anyone else looking should take heart, as suggests there's been an uptick in roles in the last week or so (at least, in IT Financial Services sector).

Been using umbrella calculators for back-of-fag-packet estimates of take home for inside IR35, but well aware these calculators are usually sexed up. Any rough calculation I can use to compare "real" Inside IR35 Day Rate with a Perm Salary?

Sorry for your loss, thoughts and prayers etc

Rate times 53/54% gives you real rate (no expenses etc, everything comes from net)


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[eek]

Sorry for your loss, thoughts and prayers etc

Rate times 53/54% gives you real rate (no expenses etc, everything comes from net)


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that’s take home play - what you really want here is a pre-tax salary calculation.

so compare the ‘agency umbrella rate’ as umbrella rates can mean 2 very different things to permanent salary its

daily rate * 260 * 0.7 (the umbrella rate is boosted by 14.3% employers NI / apprentice levy and holiday pay which for 25 days holiday + 8 bank holidays is 14.5%). (Yes I know that's actually 0.712 but it's close).

that figure excludes sick leave and other benefits so once you add on pensions that .7 multiplier will be .65 and with sickness and other benefits 0.6 or even 0.55.

I would actually use that 0.55 as a benchmark so compare the permanent salary with daily rate * 143.

[fiisch]

Thank you both - that's very helpful.

On that basis, the FTC is actually the "best" paid, followed by inside roles followed by perm position (no idea about current client yet).

That actually makes the perm role seem a better bet, especially when you factor in future uncertainty, no qualms about taking time off etc.

My commuting costs into London are quite significant, so think it will come down to how flexible they are re.: WFH post-Covid (if they can give a straight answer on that).

[jayn200]

that’s take home play - what you really want here is a pre-tax salary calculation.

so compare the ‘agency umbrella rate’ as umbrella rates can mean 2 very different things to permanent salary its

daily rate * 260 * 0.7 (the umbrella rate is boosted by 14.3% employers NI / apprentice levy and holiday pay which for 25 days holiday + 8 bank holidays is 14.5%). (Yes I know that's actually 0.712 but it's close).

that figure excludes sick leave and other benefits so once you add on pensions that .7 multiplier will be .65 and with sickness and other benefits 0.6 or even 0.55.

I would actually use that 0.55 as a benchmark so compare the permanent salary with daily rate * 143.

Yeah an important consideration is what rate you are comparing. The advertised rate by law can't include Employers NI or apprentice levy. So it's quite likely the rate OP is considering already excludes these (but please confirm this).

So really you're just left with deducting holiday + pension. I think most people inflate benefits to be worth much more than the actual cost to the employer and definitely more than the monetary value to themselves and i rarely include them in any comparison I am doing but if you do then you should value them at the likelihood you would use them * monetary benefit of using them.