State of the Market

[avonleigh]

It's not just outsourcing that is the issue. The pool of people available has increased so much now as people have been here so long they have been able to settle permanently. Immigration and outsourcing will never be stopped by whichever party is in power. They all want a cheap workforce.

[WTFH]

Trump or any equivalent won’t fix the outsourcing - they are cheaper and money (reduced costs/ extra profit) talks and wins

To be fair, the issue isn't "outsourcing" - this is a contractor forum, and contractors rely on businesses wanting to outsource their requirements to others. What most on here complain about as "outsourcing" they really mean "offshoring"
And the problem with that is if you have a role which can be done WFH, then why can't it be done remotely from anywhere in the world? And if it can be done from anywhere in the world, then why choose overpriced people in the UK, when you can get cheap people from other countries?
If it's done cheaper, then shareholders get bigger dividends and they are happy.

[Fraidycat]

Rates will make little difference even if ZERO! The current Chancellor before she got this job was asked direct questions last year on the Trade Floor at the IB I worked at regarding basic economic monetary concepts she stood a few feet away from me we did not know at the time who she was...we did however remember her fluffing her response & not being able to answer anything displaying a complete lack of basic financial markets terminology & quickly moving away before the heat of the question melted her resolve.......!

It was shocking to witness....especially now she is in charge of the economy.......! I seriously doubt she can survive this year politically the immense pressure will continue to build!

We are doomed, the Bank of England now predicts rising unemployment to mid 2027..

And I was just reading, that except for the minority Labour government of 1924, "The Labour party has never left government with unemployment lower than when it came in"

[Bluenose]

And the problem with that is if you have a role which can be done WFH, then why can't it be done remotely from anywhere in the world? And if it can be done from anywhere in the world, then why choose overpriced people in the UK, when you can get cheap people from other countries?

Timezone plays a part but the answer is, to survive you can't just be average, you need to be better than everyone else.

Are customers willing to pay extra for people that are top of their game and in the right time zone? Yes.

Do they have the appropriate funding? Thats the question for the UK+EU market, I don't think they do. The UK+EU are in decline, to protect the share-prices they are moving things out of the EU entirely which, will stifle innovation and accelerate the decline in the medium to long-term (20 years).

By this time the chickens come home to roost, McKinsey and the C Suite they advised have been patted on the back, have a sack of money and off they go to the next company to 'maximise shareholder value'.

Look at what happened to the test case for all of this, RBS. Yes, they can still 'run' a bank using 80% non-UK Resources but do they innovate? How long before Revolut eats their lunch? Does anyone really get up in the morning and think, 'yep, lets open an account with RBS, that sounds like a step in the right direction'. The only thing keeping RBS (aka Natwest) afloat is a bunch of boomers and people older than the ark who dont know or, dont want to move their accounts to something like Revolut.

Symantec/Veritas, another one that did the same, just in a different vertical. BT Group about to attempt what RBS and Symantec/Veritas did, the list goes on.

The trick to survive, if you are only average is to get into a growing company (do your research), accept an average permie salary plus share options and be happy.

Some average people will get promoted into non-average jobs, even if average and go on to earn tons of salary.

The share options will either allow you to retire or you will spend the rest of your life working in a corporate environment doing an average job, which aint a bad life.

For the non-average contractor, why are you here reading this? get back to work.

[SussexSeagull]

It's not just outsourcing that is the issue. The pool of people available has increased so much now as people have been here so long they have been able to settle permanently. Immigration and outsourcing will never be stopped by whichever party is in power. They all want a cheap workforce.

I see the Conservatives are suggesting extending the time it takes to get indefinite leave to remain from 5 to 10 years but I am not sure that would have made a huge difference had it been the case for the last 20 years as people who came over on Visas for IT work didn't seem to struggle for work.

I think the main problem is you have a lot of IT specialists who came over on Visas and (legally) worked their way to have indefinite leave to remain and now have families and kids in schools.

Immigration could and should have been managed better but offshoring can't really be stopped.

[SussexSeagull]

To be fair, the issue isn't "outsourcing" - this is a contractor forum, and contractors rely on businesses wanting to outsource their requirements to others. What most on here complain about as "outsourcing" they really mean "offshoring"
And the problem with that is if you have a role which can be done WFH, then why can't it be done remotely from anywhere in the world? And if it can be done from anywhere in the world, then why choose overpriced people in the UK, when you can get cheap people from other countries?
If it's done cheaper, then shareholders get bigger dividends and they are happy.

This is it in a nutshell.

[SussexSeagull]

Timezone plays a part but the answer is, to survive you can't just be average, you need to be better than everyone else.

Are customers willing to pay extra for people that are top of their game and in the right time zone? Yes.

Do they have the appropriate funding? Thats the question for the UK+EU market, I don't think they do. The UK+EU are in decline, to protect the share-prices they are moving things out of the EU entirely which, will stifle innovation and accelerate the decline in the medium to long-term (20 years).

By this time the chickens come home to roost, McKinsey and the C Suite they advised have been patted on the back, have a sack of money and off they go to the next company to 'maximise shareholder value'.

Look at what happened to the test case for all of this, RBS. Yes, they can still 'run' a bank using 80% non-UK Resources but do they innovate? How long before Revolut eats their lunch? Does anyone really get up in the morning and think, 'yep, lets open an account with RBS, that sounds like a step in the right direction'. The only thing keeping RBS (aka Natwest) afloat is a bunch of boomers and people older than the ark who dont know or, dont want to move their accounts to something like Revolut.

Symantec/Veritas, another one that did the same, just in a different vertical. BT Group about to attempt what RBS and Symantec/Veritas did, the list goes on.

The trick to survive, if you are only average is to get into a growing company (do your research), accept an average permie salary plus share options and be happy.

Some average people will get promoted into non-average jobs, even if average and go on to earn tons of salary.

The share options will either allow you to retire or you will spend the rest of your life working in a corporate environment doing an average job, which aint a bad life.

For the non-average contractor, why are you here reading this? get back to work.

As you have suggested, a lot of companies don't have the desire to spend money on top talent (be it contract or permanent). In our example, if they don't consider bringing in contractors anymore because they have offshore then it doesn't really matter how good you are.

I am sure there were some really good weavers ahead of the industrial revolution or coal miners in the 80s but it didn't do them much good.

[oliverson]

It's not just outsourcing that is the issue. The pool of people available has increased so much now as people have been here so long they have been able to settle permanently. Immigration and outsourcing will never be stopped by whichever party is in power. They all want a cheap workforce.

Good job we left the EU then or the issue would be much worse, no?

[jamesbrown]

To be fair, the issue isn't "outsourcing" - this is a contractor forum, and contractors rely on businesses wanting to outsource their requirements to others. What most on here complain about as "outsourcing" they really mean "offshoring"
And the problem with that is if you have a role which can be done WFH, then why can't it be done remotely from anywhere in the world? And if it can be done from anywhere in the world, then why choose overpriced people in the UK, when you can get cheap people from other countries?
If it's done cheaper, then shareholders get bigger dividends and they are happy.

To be fair, the issue isn't really "offshoring" in any general sense. International trade is a good thing and there will always be more competitive jurisdictions, including those with a much lower cost of living. If you have an in-demand skillset, the flip side of international competition is a larger market into which your (high value) services can be sold. The real problem is people with commodity skillsets (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way) complaining when their skillsets are treated like commodities. Generic IT contracting has had a good long run in the UK, but the writing was on the wall a very long time ago. Time to move on, it isn't coming back.

[Bluenose]

I am sure there were some really good weavers ahead of the industrial revolution or coal miners in the 80s but it didn't do them much good.

I think thats a bit of false equivalance there, the global CAGR rate for technology is estimated at 10% per year, every year for the next ten years.

The money is there on the table globally and it is a big money.

But its not on the table for mediocre coders or devops peeps that want to contract and not leave the M25 - you need to be top notch and willing to be flexible.