State of the Market

[gables]

Sounds about right - seeing a lot of CRM stuff about

Had a perm job a few years ago - didnt last long there.

They were using Salesforce for completely the wrong type of application. Had nobody on perm who knew how to work with it so had to keep hiring and firing contractors.

Another reason why there will be less dev in future for many companies SAAS.

Replace all bespoke internal systems with some kind of SAAS platform and b*stardise it until it kind of does most of what we want

Which sounds like a bespoke internal system without the b*stardisation of an existing thing if you get my drift :-)

[dsc]

I've done a few salesforce gigs as scrum master and product owner (domain ip = airlines, finance), I'm an ex full stack dev and the only thing that I like about salesforce is that multiple lazy IT/CIO's bring it in because they're incompetent, that said the marketing and pickup from lazy clients ensures there is a market - very easy to learn (if you can ignore just how bad some of it is) , jump on salesforce trailhead & collect competency badges/points (the pimps love that) + you will learn the lingo to spread on your cv

downsides ? it's a hoshbosh of software capabilities , back end is a duuuuuuumbeeeed done sql, no complex joins (a throttle on multi-tenancy), widgets and code was/is/ Vlocity/java/their own object methods - it's very disorganised especially when a vendor offers their own salesforce app which then sits on top of this.

Major downside ? Karen management, i.e. people who have been told it's a plug and play without proper assessment and requirements and ended up in a mess & then incessantly want the system to do what they want without requirements

easy contract if you can switch off 3/4 of your brain, but hey, beats stacking shelves........... just

ps:

I used https://trailhead.salesforce.com. during covid to skill up, as there was SFA to do for 4 odd months and the golf courses were closed.

Thanks, I've been on trailhead and the moment I've seen users referred to as trailblazers, I've switched it off, I just can't stand that lingo, but then again it's an American company, so maybe that's normal for them...dumbed down sql? jeez and here's me thinking it can never be more dumbed down. I actually wondered what SF devs actually do, I presume there's a lot of front end with a bit of backend via the dumbed down SQL? I come from a C++ env with a low of pre-built libs, so I wouldn't call my self a dev, so perhaps it's the thing for me.

Overall it feels like a very basic offering (in terms of product, it's a CRM at the end of the day, how complicated can it be?), rolled around in American lingo glitter, but paying way more than my industry. I'm just worried that if I move into it being in the burned out state that I am it will be a slippery slope.

[tsmith]

Thanks, I've been on trailhead and the moment I've seen users referred to as trailblazers, I've switched it off, I just can't stand that lingo, but then again it's an American company, so maybe that's normal for them...dumbed down sql? jeez and here's me thinking it can never be more dumbed down. I actually wondered what SF devs actually do, I presume there's a lot of front end with a bit of backend via the dumbed down SQL? I come from a C++ env with a low of pre-built libs, so I wouldn't call my self a dev, so perhaps it's the thing for me.

Overall it feels like a very basic offering (in terms of product, it's a CRM at the end of the day, how complicated can it be?), rolled around in American lingo glitter, but paying way more than my industry. I'm just worried that if I move into it being in the burned out state that I am it will be a slippery slope.

I heard the term 'hyperspecialisation' in a video on current state of IT. eg People at Snapchat who just work on buttons - thats not a joke

With increases in supply and decreases in demand its hard to get anywhere as a generalist. But then like you say if SF goes out of fashion and your a specialist in SF youre up against it

Its always look at the last 18months of this guys CV. If its not a very close match to what we need now. Anything before hes worked on is irrelevant. Reject.

Im sick of the industry now to be honest. The nonsense never ends. Looking to move out of it.

[oliverson]

Im sick of the industry now to be honest. The nonsense never ends. Looking to move out of it.

I can relate to that and I'm in a pretty good contract, possibly the best I've had in 20 years doing this.

The problem I can't shake is that I'm in 57 in the summer, and whilst that's not late in terms of thinking about retirement, the missus is 11 years older than me and already retired. Is she supposed to wait around for me to decide to hang up my keyboard? What happens when she hits 70, god willing, in just a couple of years time and I'm still 58, again, god willing. I think that if the roles were reversed, I'd be very concerned that she was still working when we should be living whatever lives we have left together. Can I afford to retire? Probably, but I'd have to sell one property and move to the holiday home. 2-3 years longer would be better financially, assuming I stayed in this contract. What about the nice things though? The Tesla? The lack of money worries? I'd hate to be one of those expats that is constantly watching the pennies/euros. I guess I really have to evaluate what's important moving forward. Don't most people downsize when they get older and the kids (we don't have any) have fled the next?

[dsc]

[...]
With increases in supply and decreases in demand its hard to get anywhere as a generalist. But then like you say if SF goes out of fashion and your a specialist in SF youre up against it

Its always look at the last 18months of this guys CV. If its not a very close match to what we need now. Anything before hes worked on is irrelevant. Reject.
[...]

I'm in green energy now, wind to be precise and I thought I've won the lottery when I got in, thinking, this is a hot topic and will last for a good 10-15yrs at least, right? well, wrong, it's going through a very slow phase now, with minimal investment and no work, hence downsizing and not a lot of hiring. SF is meant to be super hot now, and it's been for the last 5yrs at least, but it might also go dead in 2-3yrs, when I eventually wrap my head around it and then what? I'll be in the very same spot as now. If I was to pick and do an specific language like C or C#, then at least I have a skill which can be used in a different industry (not that I think I can pick up serious skills at 40yo vs all the youngsters with their Angular / React / other hot lingo). With SF it seems that it a one way street which might turn out to be a dead end.

As for CV entries, definitely agreed, you current / previous gig is all that matters, the rest is just there as a filler to maybe see how you've done in terms of getting work and being promoted (if you are perm). Skills from beyond the last two years you might as well scrap from the CV

[edison]

I'm in green energy now, wind to be precise and I thought I've won the lottery when I got in, thinking, this is a hot topic and will last for a good 10-15yrs at least, right? well, wrong, it's going through a very slow phase now, with minimal investment and no work, hence downsizing and not a lot of hiring. SF is meant to be super hot now, and it's been for the last 5yrs at least, but it might also go dead in 2-3yrs, when I eventually wrap my head around it and then what? I'll be in the very same spot as now. If I was to pick and do an specific language like C or C#, then at least I have a skill which can be used in a different industry (not that I think I can pick up serious skills at 40yo vs all the youngsters with their Angular / React / other hot lingo). With SF it seems that it a one way street which might turn out to be a dead end.

As for CV entries, definitely agreed, you current / previous gig is all that matters, the rest is just there as a filler to maybe see how you've done in terms of getting work and being promoted (if you are perm). Skills from beyond the last two years you might as well scrap from the CV

It's true that recruiters overly emphasise scanning job titles/dates on the first page and that's about it in a lot of cases. But to say skills older than two years are meaningless is an exaggeration, especially if you're not a techie.

Green industry jobs seemed all the rage back in summer 2022. I remember at the time myself and a couple of friends had approaches for jobs in solar energy, wind farms, electric vehicles and more. Now that Labour appears to be watering down their flagship Green Investment policy, don't expect an upturn any time soon

[sreed]

Labour appears to be watering down their flagship Green Investment policy, don't expect an upturn any time soon

Labour have a policy?! I thought their whole shtick is - we won’t undo anything that the Tories did, we won’t do anything that the Tories wouldn’t do, our leader is as vanilla as theirs, BUT we ain’t them so vote for us!

[willendure]

Its always look at the last 18months of this guys CV. If its not a very close match to what we need now. Anything before hes worked on is irrelevant. Reject.

I have some advice on that, and it worked for me recently, I mean I got an actual interview. Sadly did not get the role, but at least my CV evaded the black hole.

The advice is write your CV like this:

Page 1

Joe Blogs (Independant Contractor)

Intro paragraph

Skills

Case Studies

Page 2

Case Studies might run over to page 2.

Experience

...


Now you can put your most relevant experience for the role in Case Studies without having to break the chronological ordering of your experience. Get the most relevant stuff up top, that you think they really need to see, on page 1. So going for a Java role, but not touched Java for 5 years? Thats ok, you've still got a great little case study from back then to put up. I did Java for 20 years, I think I could probably do it in my sleep. Haven't touched it for some time now...

I guess its not always going to work, but at least it will be amongst the first things they read. I always picture my CV being read by some impatient twat hovering over the waste basket, ready to scrumple it up and chuck it if you give them the slightest reason to.

[willendure]

I'm in green energy now, wind to be precise and I thought I've won the lottery when I got in, thinking, this is a hot topic and will last for a good 10-15yrs at least, right? well, wrong, it's going through a very slow phase now, with minimal investment and no work, hence downsizing and not a lot of hiring.

This makes sense to me in the light of what I have been saying about the dollar milkshake, and also higher rates, and interest rate inversion. Capital is tight right now, banks are not lending, the savings rate is close to zero, government are constrained by debt. Wind energy is capital intensive. A gas power station, you build it, then pay for the gas through the life of the power station. A wind farm, you pay for the whole lot up front, then it runs (just about) for free. So its a cyclic industry. It will pick up again if capital gets looser, which it is bound to sooner or later.

[Snooky]

The problem I can't shake is that I'm in 57 in the summer, and whilst that's not late in terms of thinking about retirement, the missus is 11 years older than me and already retired. Is she supposed to wait around for me to decide to hang up my keyboard? What happens when she hits 70, god willing, in just a couple of years time and I'm still 58, again, god willing. I think that if the roles were reversed, I'd be very concerned that she was still working when we should be living whatever lives we have left together.

If I were in your position I'd either be working part time or retire completely and cope with whatever income & assets I had. Bad things can happen at any stage of life but, as we get older, they're more likely. God forbid anything should happen to either of you, but wouldn't you rather you'd shared some time at leisure together if it did, instead of chasing cash?