[Merged]Brexit stuff (part 2)

[milanbenes]

Meanwhile, OriginalPM has been generous enough to share the Brexiter's vision:

1) Free movement of labour, not free movement of people.
2) Ability trade with who we want on terms mutually agreeable to both parties without having to have agreements ratified by 27 other countries with opposing goals.
3) Zero interference from other countries on our policies


So now we know what the vision is, let's see how it plays out in practice and what the implications will be and of course, whether it will actually happen and of course whether the pudding will actually look and taste as it was envisioned.

Milan.

[DodgyAgent]

Brexit logic. The EU is a tyranny. We fought two world wars to be free of tyranny. We must leave the EU.

I've yet to see the first point coherently demonstrated.

Like all Tyrannies the EU's main reaction to Brexit is to protect itself. If you take a look at all groups (in business or politics) in history they have a desire to grow in power, wealth and influence. The only things that hold them in check are markets and democracy. The EU may seem relatively harmless now but Brexit has shown just how self centered they are. There is little evidence either of them changing.

[DodgyAgent]

,...some refugees from Calais who are well on their way to a free pension
Not an EU issue - rather a France/UK issue. But I applaud your smug mean-spiritedness

What is the relevance of "smug mean spiritedness" ?

[WTFH]

Wow "DEEPLY OFFENSIVE" (why???). in capital letters too!!! How dare anyone mention the war!! Do you really think racism, religious intolerance were at the front of people's minds when Britain went to war? Are you really such an idiot that you have no sense of context? We fought 2 world wars in order to protect ourselves from tyranny or control from other European countries not because of politically correct virtues that are more relevant to todays mature democracies

Remainers do not necessarily disagree with this but they clearly fail to have learnt the lessons from history.

The offensive bit was the concept in his post that everyone who did not vote for Brexit did not consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands, who gave their lives to protect our freedom - that their deaths were of any value whatsoever.

That is deeply offensive.

As for the "politically correct virtues", perhaps the Daily Mail would like to re-run its headlines from the 1930s. Was it "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" they said when they were hoping the UK would be overrun by racist & religious hatred spewing forth from Germany?

[vetran]

Why? Didn't need one before joining the common market.

that was the bremoaners greatest card, all the youngsters said I voted remain so I could travel & work in Europe. I pointed out that it wasn't unknown for that to happen before the EU or even the world war.

[d000hg]

Brexit logic. The EU is a tyranny. We fought two world wars to be free of tyranny. We must leave the EU.

I've yet to see the first point coherently demonstrated.

Didn't we fight two world wars to protect other countries from tyranny? By that logic we should be encouraging (i as forceful a way as is needed) other nations to leave the EU too

[DodgyAgent]

The offensive bit was the concept in his post that everyone who did not vote for Brexit did not consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands, who gave their lives to protect our freedom - that their deaths were of any value whatsoever.

That is deeply offensive.

As for the "politically correct virtues", perhaps the Daily Mail would like to re-run its headlines from the 1930s. Was it "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" they said when they were hoping the UK would be overrun by racist & religious hatred spewing forth from Germany?

Who says Remainers did consider the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British and allied soldiers? In fact I would add that probably many Brexiters didn't consider the casualties of the two wars as part of their decision. I did because I believe in the importance and fragility of democracy as I am sure many others did. Probably some remainers also did but my view is that these people assume that democracy is something that will happen anyway even if we devolve power to the unelected institution of the EU.

[DodgyAgent]

Didn't we fight two world wars to protect other countries from tyranny? By that logic we should be encouraging (i as forceful a way as is needed) other nations to leave the EU too

No we fought them to protect ourselves. The geopolitics (something that is clearly beyond your scope of understanding) may have been that by protecting other countries from tyrannies was part of the program of protecting Britain. After all Hitler did not want to fight Britain and Britain could have stayed out of the war. Ultimately a Europe controlled by the Nazis would have threatened Britain in the future.

[vetran]

lol

just trying to help stop the sheep from walking off the cliff

Milan.

I thought Brillo taught you the trick, make sure their back legs are in your wellies!

[DodgyAgent]

just trying to help stop the sheep from walking off the cliff

Milan.

That is just an empty cliche. Go on Milan we have done our bit to explain why we should have Brexit now let us hear some coherent arguments from you as to why we should remain.