IR35: Planning for April 2021 – should I stay or should I go?

[NowPermOutsideUK]

HMRC's favourite time to send letters is the last Easter and the May bank holidays before they run out of time to do so.

That is actually this April and May - so after these rules kick in..

So I would be very happy to answer the question - sometime in June 2020.

"Quote Originally Posted by Andy2 View Post
how many tax investigation were done by hmrc when these ir35 rules were enforced in the public sector ?
That should give an idea about how much risk are we talking about."

Hi I read all 33 pages so thank you for a great amount of info

I hope I do not get barked at for asking whether there were any statistics for number of cases investigated? Do we know anything about how many cases have been opened / closed ?

[northernladuk]

"Quote Originally Posted by Andy2 View Post
how many tax investigation were done by hmrc when these ir35 rules were enforced in the public sector ?
That should give an idea about how much risk are we talking about."

Hi I read all 33 pages so thank you for a great amount of info

I hope I do not get barked at for asking whether there were any statistics for number of cases investigated? Do we know anything about how many cases have been opened / closed ?

Try a search or read the IR35 reform fora. We've been over this ad infinitum...

[GhostofTarbera]

"Quote Originally Posted by Andy2 View Post
how many tax investigation were done by hmrc when these ir35 rules were enforced in the public sector ?
That should give an idea about how much risk are we talking about."

Hi I read all 33 pages so thank you for a great amount of info

I hope I do not get barked at for asking whether there were any statistics for number of cases investigated? Do we know anything about how many cases have been opened / closed ?

About zero in the last 2 years

Ipse would never disclose number of cases (even to the CC) as fallen off a cliff and need to keep revenue streams coming in with project fear




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[rnsuk]

If it's an outside to inside transition same client and you're deemed as inside throughout the engagement, assuming the company upon closure is not investigated, then expect to remortgage house and sell assets at a later date as the liability falls onto the director of the company.... HMRC can still open investigations on closed companies after the event. If you have insurance, at least run that a year or two after the LTD is finished.

I have a cunning plan. Make my no assets no job no clue son a director, me leave as a director, close the company. Then they can come for him. He and his mum have taken most of the money I ever earned , he can pay some back

[cojak]

Updated to reflect the 1 year delay.

[quantum77]

Thanks for this thread cojak

I've been working for a client for a few years, and had all contracts checked by QDOS and deemed outside IR35. My current contract is due to finish this month and I plan on finishing there. There's never been a SDS, and they're fairly IR35 clueless.

A contractor friend of mine is looking for work and asked if he could take the contract with them post April, and sub some of the work to me. I'm happy for him to do so, but my worry is it'll recreate the link between the client and me (although via 3rd party) and if they decide to make all new contacts inside IR35 I'll be adding an unnecessary retrospective investigation risk.

Am I worrying over nothing?

[jamesbrown]

Am I worrying over nothing?

Nope, you're worrying over something. The additional intermediary will be completely ignored from an IR35 POV, hence the "intermediaries legislation". It looks through all of the intermediaries and tries to see whether you, a natural person, look like an employee of the end client.

So if the client provides a negative SDS, yes, that does put you in a tough spot regarding the earlier work and the additional intermediary provides absolutely no level of protection. Again, we're talking about historical risk here because the liability is with the supply chain above you after April 5.

[BlasterBates]

Thanks for this thread cojak

I've been working for a client for a few years, and had all contracts checked by QDOS and deemed outside IR35. My current contract is due to finish this month and I plan on finishing there. There's never been a SDS, and they're fairly IR35 clueless.

A contractor friend of mine is looking for work and asked if he could take the contract with them post April, and sub some of the work to me. I'm happy for him to do so, but my worry is it'll recreate the link between the client and me (although via 3rd party) and if they decide to make all new contacts inside IR35 I'll be adding an unnecessary retrospective investigation risk.

Am I worrying over nothing?

If he is subbing out the work then it's pretty clearly outside IR35. If that were to change then you can cancel the contract. An inside IR35 contract is not going to allow subbing and there would be a clear change of contractual obligations.

I don't see any danger here but you could get some advice from an IR35 expert if you're worried,

[jamesbrown]

If he is subbing out the work then it's pretty clearly outside IR35. If that were to change then you can cancel the contract. An inside IR35 contract is not going to allow subbing and there would be a clear change of contractual obligations.

I don't see any danger here but you could get some advice from an IR35 expert if you're worried,

You're confusing two separate things here. For IR35 purposes, the relationship in question is between the end client and the contractor as a natural person (hence the "hypothetical contract"). The nature of the supply chain above the PSC is completely irrelevant to IR35, by definition, since it looks through these intermediaries. If quantum77 were able to subcontract the work then, sure, that would help, but that is a completely different thing. Also, subcontracting, assigning and substitution are all separate things and the main test is substitution.

[BlasterBates]

You're confusing two separate things here. For IR35 purposes, the relationship in question is between the end client and the contractor as a natural person (hence the "hypothetical contract"). The nature of the supply chain above the PSC is completely irrelevant to IR35, by definition, since it looks through these intermediaries. If quantum77 were able to subcontract the work then, sure, that would help, but that is a completely different thing. Also, subcontracting, assigning and substitution are all separate things and the main test is substitution.

A contract where you can subcontract is clearly outside. Very tenuous to suggest if this contractor ends up inside at some point that the HMRC will open up an investigation on his subcontractors during a previous contract.

In the 20 years of IR35 there has been a sum total of 35 court cases most which were won by the contractor. This is the least of your worries.