No To Retro Tax - Ongoing battle against S58 FA2008

[DonkeyRhubarb]

One quick question on this. If we enter into a JR. and the payment of the APN is suspended. If we then fail will we be suject to the additional 5% + 5% + 5%?

Thanks

There is a risk yes.

A pre-hearing in the Ingenious film scheme JR, being led by Pinsent Masons, produced some undesirable results. One of these was that the JR would not prevent penalties. Another was that people would have to demonstrate hardship to prevent enforcement. Pinsent are going to appeal but at the moment the situation is uncertain.

FWIW, my own view on this is, if you can pay an APN, you should seriously consider doing so.

[centurian]

There is a risk yes.

A pre-hearing in the Ingenious film scheme JR, being led by Pinsent Masons, produced some undesirable results. One of these was that the JR would not prevent penalties. Another was that people would have to demonstrate hardship to prevent enforcement. Pinsent are going to appeal but at the moment the situation is uncertain.

Even if the JR is successful - any suspension would only apply to those that can demonstrate hardship ??

That's quite a hammer blow if that's the way it turns out...

If so, what's the point of the JR - let's face it, HMRC will probably apply light touch enforcement for those with hardship - at least in the early days... - so a successful JR on the above basis is just what will probably happen on the ground anyway.

FWIW, my own view on this is, if you can pay an APN, you should seriously consider doing so.

WHS

[lucozade]

There is a risk yes.

A pre-hearing in the Ingenious film scheme JR, being led by Pinsent Masons, produced some undesirable results. One of these was that the JR would not prevent penalties. Another was that people would have to demonstrate hardship to prevent enforcement. Pinsent are going to appeal but at the moment the situation is uncertain.

FWIW, my own view on this is, if you can pay an APN, you should seriously consider doing so.

This does not make for very good reading. I was feeling positive until this.

I hope our approach will be somewhat different and that any JR will learn from any mistake made by Pinsent Mason.

This sounds horrible.

[webberg]

This does not make for very good reading. I was feeling positive until this.

I hope our approach will be somewhat different and that any JR will learn from any mistake made by Pinsent Mason.

This sounds horrible.

I've posted elsewhere that the facts in Ingenious may be different and there is some hope that the comments of the judge are either specific to that case or that he will be proven wrong at the full hearing.

With the Ingenious situation, their scheme is literally in the middle of a hearing, it's been rumbling on for close on 10 years, there is history on both sides of the litigation of games being played with Court process and time, the average APN value is higher than most contractors (in the region of £400k), the settlement offer made pre hearing looks like a failure in terms of cash collected because of HMRC's intransigent attitude and insistence that a case not yet heard gives them power to open certain years.

Enough distinguishing elements I think to make a better argument for contractors.

That said, I would echo DR.

If you can pay the APN, then do so, even if it's in instalments.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Even if the JR is successful - any suspension would only apply to those that can demonstrate hardship ??

No, if the JR is successful then HMRC would have to withdraw the APNs.

The suspension is while the JR is going through the courts, and the Judge in the pre-hearing said this would depend on hardship.

[lucozade]

No, if the JR is successful then HMRC would have to withdraw the APNs.

The suspension is while the JR is going through the courts, and the Judge in the pre-hearing said this would depend on hardship.

I'm presuming that the greater majority of us in NTRT are just standard contractors and don't have huge incomes and savings in the bank. Thus, the majority would have to consider a level of hardship that would affect our families.

[jeanvaljean]

Paying APN

I'm not able to but for those considering it, would that not be acknowledging that you owe the money? Is that wise?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I'm not able to but for those considering it, would that not be acknowledging that you owe the money? Is that wise?

Paying an APN doesn't compromise your position. It has no bearing on the underlying tax dispute.

By paying it, you are just complying with the law.

[elpinar]

That said, I would echo DR.

If you can pay the APN, then do so, even if it's in instalments.

i presume it goes without saying then that for those of us with CTDS we should put them up against the APNs asap as what is the point in delaying ?

how does that work do you know ? so if you have say a ctd for 40k and one apn for 25 and one for 20 can you put up a single ctd against the 2? or do they faff around and 'cash it in' as it were....

alos can you pay an APN 'without prejudice' ie if later the case wins you get your cash back?

[TheFlyer]

If you can pay the APN then pay?

I have sent my APN to Dawn and been told to wait for the validity of it. One thing I noticed was each years compilation it said I could get another APN for NIC that is not included on this bill. Did anyone else have that?

Also at what point is all lost legally by MTM? And then HMRC expect people to pay up. I am not referring to anything NTRT are doing, as people not in NTRT need to get their heads out off the sand and take note, as judgement day may be here quite soon.