No To Retro Tax - Ongoing battle against S58 FA2008

[DonkeyRhubarb]

Hope this isnt veering off the subject, and I don't know if this is the correct forum, but if you cannot pay all the APN but your wife/children/parents have money, can HMRC demand the money from them? No
Also, following on, if you sell your house can HMRC demand all the money or only your percentage of the price?

In red.

[freeranger]

soo....why wouldn't little johnny contractor with his mountain of cash just give it all to his wife and transfer 100% ownership of the house to here, tell hector he is skint and then, when hector goes away coz johnny has no money, his wife gives him back his cash and his half of the house?

[GripRacing]

soo....why wouldn't little johnny contractor with his mountain of cash just give it all to his wife and transfer 100% ownership of the house to here, tell hector he is skint and then, when hector goes away coz johnny has no money, his wife gives him back his cash and his half of the house?

I'm sure there's a legal argument against this too but from my point of view giving my wife all of my money, as well as my house, carries a higher risk than HMRC...

[flamel]

I'm sure there's a legal argument against this too but from my point of view giving my wife all of my money, as well as my house, carries a higher risk than HMRC...

Quite so. In principle you can't avoid your creditors, so hiding cash (or giving it all away to someone) or anything rash that will make the court think you are avoiding your creditors will lead to action and/or reversal of those transactions.

In the old days they used to send you to Australia.

[freeranger]

I'm sure there's a legal argument against this too but from my point of view giving my wife all of my money, as well as my house, carries a higher risk than HMRC...

lol, yeah there is that. I'm just surprised the view wouldn't be taken that certainly your spouse's assets are yours also so they look at you jointly when considering if you can pay the APN...

[elpinar]

Even if you later win your tax appeal (using George) you won't get those penalties struck off.

but surely if you won later using george your apn would be retrospecively (yes i used THAT word) revoked ... so you would owe 5- 15% of nothing ......

[AlbionRovers]

but surely if you won later using george your apn would be retrospecively (yes i used THAT word) revoked ... so you would owe 5- 15% of nothing ......

You would think so but .....

[DonkeyRhubarb]

but surely if you won later using george your apn would be retrospecively (yes i used THAT word) revoked ... so you would owe 5- 15% of nothing ......

The penalties are for not paying the APN on time.

Even if you later win your case it doesn't alter the fact that you didn't pay the APN on time.

[DaveB]

but surely if you won later using george your apn would be retrospecively (yes i used THAT word) revoked ... so you would owe 5- 15% of nothing ......

The APN is seperate from the issue of whether the tax is owed or not. The APN is a legal requirement to pay what HMRC think you owe up front. The penalties are applied not becasue you owe the tax, but because you failed to comply with the law.

If the APN's were legally issued, and you didnt pay up on time then you are going to be penalised.

I dont know the in's and out's of the NTRT approach but unless the final outcome is that the APN's were not legally issued then failure to pay them within the alloted time will incure the penaliy. The fact that you may win the challenge to the actual tax amount and the tax itself may not be payable is a seperate issue.

[Henrik]

soo....why wouldn't little johnny contractor with his mountain of cash just give it all to his wife and transfer 100% ownership of the house to here, tell hector he is skint and then, when hector goes away coz johnny has no money, his wife gives him back his cash and his half of the house?

You needed to transfer your house five years ago for this to work. Obviously doesn't work for cash in bank or in limited company now.