Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[nucastle]

Yeah good point.

[eek]

Well that kicks away most of the pillars of positivity about the situation I'm hearing

I think there is a hope that agents will find a way around the situation, to mitigate the impact on the contractor so the chances of them upping sticks and leaving is reduced. I can't myself see any way out of this.

As an aside - would this not be an opportunity to change business practices away from the paradigm of single man Ltd companies - Would an LLP model or some other collective type arrangement where the contractors can act more like Solicitors / Accountants with a practice that the end client engages, with the agent acting more like a deal broker?

If this is going to be foisted on the private sector in time, would it not be worth thinking about these kind of arrangements now?

Yep, I'm really cheerful regarding this aren't I... The problem with partnerships in any form are:

1) that they have been open to abuse in the past so HMRC don't like them...
2) how do you form a partnership of people that you actually trust and want to work with long term
3) the rules are fairly clear cut, if you are only providing Labour you are caught - to avoid this you definitely need to be providing things beyond just your skills....

We will need to see what schemes S3 group and the other big agency chains come up with but it will take time for them to create schemes that work (if they ever do) so a gap would be a very good idea...

[nucastle]

Yep, I'm really cheerful regarding this aren't I... The problem with partnerships in any form are:

1) that they have been open to abuse in the past so HMRC don't like them...
2) how do you form a partnership of people that you actually trust and want to work with long term
3) the rules are fairly clear cut, if you are only providing Labour you are caught - to avoid this you definitely need to be providing things beyond just your skills....

We will need to see what schemes S3 group and the other big agency chains come up with but it will take time for them to create schemes that work (if they ever do) so a gap would be a very good idea...

Isn't that what solicitors or lawyers are providing though - their own expertise and labour? Or any consultancy for that matter.

I look at it in the same way as setting up a design or development shop, but with an arrangement that suits sporadic projects where you don't need premises and the like.

Obviously the trust aspect is the kicker. It would only suit established contractors with a decent network. Which unfortunately knacks anyone who is just starting out.

[eek]

Isn't that what solicitors or lawyers are providing though - their own expertise and labour? Or any consultancy for that matter.

I look at it in the same way as setting up a design or development shop, but with an arrangement that suits sporadic projects where you don't need premises and the like.

Obviously the trust aspect is the kicker. It would only suit established contractors with a decent network. Which unfortunately knacks anyone who is just starting out.

So how do you become a design / development shop when you are dependent on agencies finding you work that comes in 3-6 month chunks...

That is a big change in how you work that requires moving from people finding you to do the work (agencies) to you directly seeking out that work...

[nucastle]

So how do you become a design / development shop when you are dependent on agencies finding you work that comes in 3-6 month chunks...

That is a big change in how you work that requires moving from people finding you to do the work (agencies) to you directly seeking out that work...

Fair enough. Probably requires more thought.

Anyways, back on point - we're doomed!

[Hobosapien]

Besides, if several contractors are working through the same entity it gets messy when some are on the bench unless they agree how the profits will be shared fairly. Annual bonuses instead of the usual share based divis?

I know a group of people that left a company, set up their own ltd, went back contracting at oldco while trying to sort out other revenue streams, and it ended badly with only one of them still contracting and bringing in all the dosh and the other 3 sat in the office each day struggling to find other regular revenue streams of high value.

Felt sorry for the one lad that in effect carried the others for quite a few months before they all gave it up.

Also cost them their friendships in the fall out.

So any workable alternatives to one man band independent contractors may be a long time coming if it doesn't already exist.

[eek]

Fair enough. Probably requires more thought.

Anyways, back on point - we're doomed!

The actual point is that it is doable - but it does require a lot of thought and hard work - which would have to be done in the evenings or when not in contract...

[DaveB]

The actual point is that it is doable - but it does require a lot of thought....

Further complicated by procurement rules that effectively exclude us from bidding directly for work and force us to go via agencies on a PSL.

[youngguy]

IR35 and umbrella here we come

[Old Greg]

The actual point is that it is doable - but it does require a lot of thought and hard work - which would have to be done in the evenings or when not in contract...

Not read all of this....

One answer may be to set up a company (BigCo) owned jointly by several One man band Ltds (MyCo's). If I win a contract all the money goes via BigCo to MyCo, and we share annual costs.

Look to get on a procurement framework.



I'm not in the UK anymore but I'm doing my bit. Recent email exchange:

Thanks Pimp. Unfortunately I don't work within the TDA caps.

Best of luck filling the role.

OG

...

Hello OG
I am currently recruiting for Project Manager with an NHS client based in Ilford.
Initially the contract will last for 6 months. Day rates will be in line with the TDA caps.
The job itself will revolve around Single sign solution, and Clinical/IT system change.
The candidate will ideally come from an IT background and preferably have NHS experience.

If interested or want more details on the role, then feel free to call me at the office on xxxxxx.

Pimp