Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[eek]

Loads of evidence, including many long conversations with the people at the sharp end - inside IPSE...

Says a person who has been inside IPSE for 12 years and had a habit of misrepresenting his position in it to his advantage (until called out by TF and ms) - there is plenty of evidence on the latter point around here.

[malvolio]

Says a person who has been inside IPSE for 12 years and had a habit of misrepresenting his position in it to his advantage (until called out by TF and ms) - there is plenty of evidence on the latter point around here.

Again, wrong. I've never said I represented IPSE and have many times said I'm speaking for myself alone. In the days when I did actually genuinely represent IPSE I wasn't posting on here, nor for some time afterwards. You will also note I have yet to be corrected by any posts from IPSE or any of the others who have got out of their comfy world and tried to actually do something.

But that is not even vaguely relevant to the current discussion. HMRC have been told what to do, the challenge now is not to get them to do something else - that simply isn't going to happen - but to minimise the potential damage it will cause; failing that, wait until the disaster strikes then use the same research to get them out of the hole they will have dug themselves into.

You really must stop confusing motion with progress.

[mudskipper]

Says a person who has been inside IPSE for 12 years and had a habit of misrepresenting his position in it to his advantage (until called out by TF and ms) - there is plenty of evidence on the latter point around here.

mal, up till this year, has been involved with IPSE on CC and board for many, many years; both man and boy.

Whilst I don't always agree with his posting style, he has contributed a huge amount, and I for one am sorry to see him leave the CC.

The only thing I believe I have ever 'called him out' on (and then only politely) is when he has used language carelessly that implied he was representing IPSE's views rather than his own.

Let's not get personal - there's bigger issues here.

[youngguy]

I think it's probably something like:

- Make sure as many contractors you know know about the proposal, and encourage them to respond to the consultation with as much fact-based information as they can.

- Make sure that as many clients as possible know about the proposal, and encourage them to respond to the consultation with as much fact-based information as they can.

- Respond to the consultation with as much fact-based information as you can.

At the moment, the consultation is still running - and the more people that respond with details of how this is a bad thing (whether that's because it's bad for the public sector, bad for the individual, bad because of the implementation and on-going costs, bad because the tool cannot reflect the case law accuratley, bad because there is so much uncertainty about expenses) then the more likely this is to be stopped or restricted.

I'm surprised that people need telling to try to get people involved in the consultation, though.

I quite agree these things are quite obvious , ironically you have provided more guidance and detail than IPSE. My point is what are they doing as a body ,considering they hold our membership money

[youngguy]

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post2288654



http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post2288654



http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post2288654


The "meeting minutes" are a recollection published in news story of a consultation meeting. Of course HMRC go into these with a view as to consulting on "how" and, sometimes, "when", not "if". It is not within the authority of HMRC officials to discuss the "if" - their policies are, believe it or not, set by their political masters.

Obfuscation.

You gave a vague answer about us and them and an alleged plan you would not disclose You did not answer my points specifically.

So when I tell all my mates to get involved and write to MPs as lone voices and they say what about IPSE I have to say 'they are doing something apparently but no one knows what'.

As a paying member I have asked you several times on here and directly and you have provided nothing. Not even a clue as to what meetings or ministers you are lobbying, let alone meeting. For all we know you are sat in front of a computer looking at survey monkey results and scratching your heads trying to work out how to export it into excel to make a graph.

I won't ask again and I won't renew my membership with you.

[youngguy]

Loads of evidence, including many long conversations with the people at the sharp end - inside IPSE...

Come on Mal. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds ?

Cliche and rhetoric.... Btw I am leader of a troop of genie's. I can't show you them or tell you what they can do for you, but give me money and good things will occur. Trust me. I have the evidence and you know I've got your back , nudge nudge wink wink

[missinggreenfields]

So when I tell all my mates to get involved and write to MPs as lone voices and they say what about IPSE I have to say 'they are doing something apparently but no one knows what'.

I'll save you the price of a stamp at the moment - there is no point writing to your MP because the only reply they will give you is "thank you for your letter, HMRC are still consulting on this point, I advise you to respond to the consultation, and I'll watch this closely for progress". If your MP isn't a Labour MP, then they may add "Labour left us in such a mess that we need to get more money in and this will do that".

Complete the consultation response with facts. When the consultation is finished and there is a government response, that's the time for people to write to their MPs - and I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of organised letter writing campaign to MPs at the appropriate time.

[eek]

mal, up till this year, has been involved with IPSE on CC and board for many, many years; both man and boy.

Whilst I don't always agree with his posting style, he has contributed a huge amount, and I for one am sorry to see him leave the CC.

The only thing I believe I have ever 'called him out' on (and then only politely) is when he has used language carelessly that implied he was representing IPSE's views rather than his own.

Let's not get personal - there's bigger issues here.

And the reason why I mentioned it was that he spent years doing exactly that claiming that the comment he made represented IPSE's viewpoint when it was just his own and that he continued to do so even when questioned until others here arrived on the CC and started to call him out - his past demeanor (and I think there are numerous examples between 2009 and 2015) does mean that any of his comments should be treated with (trying to think of an appropriate phrase, shall we say caution)...

However its nice to see you posting on this thread and I agree that there are big problems and I look forward to how IPSE deal with it... I fear that I already know the answer but lets hope for the sake of others that I'm wrong.....

[youngguy]

I'll save you the price of a stamp at the moment - there is no point writing to your MP because the only reply they will give you is "thank you for your letter, HMRC are still consulting on this point, I advise you to respond to the consultation, and I'll watch this closely for progress".

I personally think there will be very little value in lone people speaking up. If only there was a group that could represent our concerns and lobby on our behalf ....

Given IPSE are as unwilling to listen to their stakeholders as the Gov are, I shall save my fingers in this topic and lay it to rest.

Another interesting element is the effect this will have on the whole supply chain...agencies and accountants being two obvious ones. I bet they are equally as nervous about losing revenue and having to do more recording/collecting work for hmg.

[eek]

I personally think there will be very little value in lone people speaking up. If only there was a group that could represent our concerns and lobby on our behalf ....

Given IPSE are as unwilling to listen to their stakeholders as the Gov are, I shall save my fingers in this topic and lay it to rest.

Another interesting element is the effect this will have on the whole supply chain...agencies and accountants being two obvious ones. I bet they are equally as nervous about losing revenue and having to do more recording/collecting work for hmg.

The agencies reaction (I will need to find a link) is that they don't want anything to do with it. Being risk adverse and potentially being responsible for the tax owed their default answer is going to be inside - here's a nice umbrella you may as well use (thanks for the kickback)...

Accountants will just have less customers to support as people move away... Being third party suppliers they can't do much bar accept the lost of potential customers..