You're probably not going to like this - we certainly don't

[youngguy]

For more details and to keep up-to-date on the consultation and IPSE's response to it, visit www.ipse.co.uk - we'll also post here as things develop.

I'm an IPSE member and this is a question for them (please do respond):-

What exactly are you doing about this?

This is the biggest issue and most serious 'threat' we have ever seen. Very little on the ipse forum bar a comms guy asking individual contractors to publicly state their issues.

I have seen an email begging for us to get our mates to join (nice membership revenue) to boost numbers.

I have seen a rather desperate angle by IPSE of 'as you will be busy with brexit shall we just put all this stuff on hold?'

I know there was a round table last week but I've not seen any details yet and I completed a questionnaire but haven't seen an output.

Joe public thinks us greedy contractors get loads and should be taxed the same. What are IPSE doing to lobby them and explain that we have a diff model and taxing us like them but giving us no rights is not fair?

What is IPSE doing with HMRC to explain the tool needs to be available now so contractors can calculate what it means and end contracts or renegotiate? What about the details such as if we are deemed 'caught' mid contract we have a get out clause ? What about the whole host of Qs about how their double tax model will work? What about challenging the revenue they will make and the alleged mere 500k to implement?

What about agencies and the additional workload on them and their costs?

What about the impact on the public sector with mass exodus, rate rises or additional agency costs? What is IPSE doing to show how this idea affects a large number of different stakeholders in the chain? What about costing what this means to overall PS costs and showing how that will offset the alleged extra tax? What about PR and comms and engagement each and every month to keep the pressure on?

Is the IPSE plan merely to produce one submission pre sept and hope for the best?

I'm not saying ipse doesn't have an aggressive, multi faceted plan for all this to tackle all stakeholders .....but if they have could they share some of their thoughts and progress because I don't get an immediate sense they are doing a huge amount and I've seen more from other contractor websites (which don't require a membership) and Deloitte etc on this subject.

So come on IPSE, share the battle plan!

[Ketto]

You're probably not going to like this - we certainly don't

Great post.... I'm an IPSE+ member too, would love to hear what you will be doing to support us?

[IPSE]

I'm an IPSE member and this is a question for them (please do respond):-

What exactly are you doing about this?

This is the biggest issue and most serious 'threat' we have ever seen. Very little on the ipse forum bar a comms guy asking individual contractors to publicly state their issues.

I have seen an email begging for us to get our mates to join (nice membership revenue) to boost numbers.

I have seen a rather desperate angle by IPSE of 'as you will be busy with brexit shall we just put all this stuff on hold?'

I know there was a round table last week but I've not seen any details yet and I completed a questionnaire but haven't seen an output.

Joe public thinks us greedy contractors get loads and should be taxed the same. What are IPSE doing to lobby them and explain that we have a diff model and taxing us like them but giving us no rights is not fair?

What is IPSE doing with HMRC to explain the tool needs to be available now so contractors can calculate what it means and end contracts or renegotiate? What about the details such as if we are deemed 'caught' mid contract we have a get out clause ? What about the whole host of Qs about how their double tax model will work? What about challenging the revenue they will make and the alleged mere 500k to implement?

What about agencies and the additional workload on them and their costs?

What about the impact on the public sector with mass exodus, rate rises or additional agency costs? What is IPSE doing to show how this idea affects a large number of different stakeholders in the chain? What about costing what this means to overall PS costs and showing how that will offset the alleged extra tax? What about PR and comms and engagement each and every month to keep the pressure on?

Is the IPSE plan merely to produce one submission pre sept and hope for the best?

I'm not saying ipse doesn't have an aggressive, multi faceted plan for all this to tackle all stakeholders .....but if they have could they share some of their thoughts and progress because I don't get an immediate sense they are doing a huge amount and I've seen more from other contractor websites (which don't require a membership) and Deloitte etc on this subject.

So come on IPSE, share the battle plan!

Great post.... I'm an IPSE+ member too, would love to hear what you will be doing to support us?

Clearly we won't be setting out our plans on any public forum so it'll have to suffice to say that we'll be using evidence-based arguments, calling our members to action as and when appropriate and speaking with HMG, HMRC, HMT and politicians at the highest levels. We also work closely with all the other stakeholders - CBI, REC, APSCo, the accountancy profession, end-users &etc. This has worked in the past and may well work again this time.

Evidence is key, hence the member surveys and the call for member submissions but we've also commissioned independent research around the economic impact - HMG won't listen to pure rhetoric, but they can and do pay attention to hard evidence. We attend and organise roundtables at which HMRC receive your (very vocal) feedback. And yes, membership numbers do make a difference - the larger IPSE is the louder your voice, so getting your mates to join and get involved is no bad thing.

[eek]

Clearly we won't be setting out our plans on any public forum so it'll have to suffice to say that we'll be using evidence-based arguments, calling our members to action as and when appropriate and speaking with HMG, HMRC, HMT and politicians at the highest levels. We also work closely with all the other stakeholders - CBI, REC, APSCo, the accountancy profession, end-users &etc. This has worked in the past and may well work again this time.

The Unions, low pay campaigners..... Or are you continuing to try and ignore the elephant in the room that is the fake self employment many companies use....

[IPSE]

The Unions, low pay campaigners..... Or are you continuing to try and ignore the elephant in the room that is the fake self employment many companies use....

IPSE's position on exploitation is well known and we make it well known to the unions and politicians alike.

[eek]

IPSE's position on exploitation is well known and we make it well known to the unions and politicians alike.

So its a continuation of the Ian Paisley approach of No, no, no....

[TestMangler]

So its a continuation of the Ian Paisley approach of No, no, no....

So why have I now got a loud Norn Irish voice in my head shouting "IPSE says NO!!!!!"

Thanks for that

[IPSE]

So its a continuation of the Ian Paisley approach of No, no, no....

IPSE's role is not to campaign on behalf of exploited workers - of which there are legion - but rather to campaign on behalf of contractors who are far from exploited. We have, many times, told HMRC of examples of worker exploitation and, many times, told HMG what they need to do regarding exploited workers. It's crucial that politicians see contractors as valuable contributors to UK plc and that IPSE defends our way of working - that's our raison d'être.

As you rightly point out there's the Low Pay Commission, the Trade Unions and others who can and do battle for exploited - see the current court case brought by Uber drivers.

[youngguy]

Clearly we won't be setting out our plans on any public forum .

Why not? Why the need for secrecy? It isn't like this is a bus development opportunity where your ideas will be stolen? I'd be keen to understand more around your comment and why you feel the need to be so cloak and dagger.

I fear that if you drop your secret stuff at the last minute it will be swept under the table . Why not start asking the tough questions now to expose the lack of thought from Gov?

using evidence-based arguments.

About what?

calling our members to action .

How and when?

get involved is no bad thing.

What is it you want me to do,other than be a lone case study or recruit more members for you ?

This has worked in the past and may well work again this time.
.

I guess I will cross my fingers then.......

[LondonManc]

Clearly we won't be setting out our plans on any public forum so it'll have to suffice to say that we'll be using evidence-based arguments, calling our members to action as and when appropriate and speaking with HMG, HMRC, HMT and politicians at the highest levels. We also work closely with all the other stakeholders - CBI, REC, APSCo, the accountancy profession, end-users &etc. This has worked in the past and may well work again this time.

Evidence is key, hence the member surveys and the call for member submissions but we've also commissioned independent research around the economic impact - HMG won't listen to pure rhetoric, but they can and do pay attention to hard evidence. We attend and organise roundtables at which HMRC receive your (very vocal) feedback. And yes, membership numbers do make a difference - the larger IPSE is the louder your voice, so getting your mates to join and get involved is no bad thing.

Evidence for things that haven't happened yet? Impressive, most impressive.

How about a few scenarios for, a range of people who get caught, rather than HMRC's examples of who they are doing this to catch?

If they see that there's a critical mass of skilled workers who will leave the public sector rather than get taxed to high heaven and be unable to claim T&S to use their experience from one health trust at another, HMRC might then understand the full impact and that they're using a sledgehammer rather than the intended nutcracker. If they carry on regardless, then it needs publicising that they are bringing it on themselves; I'd make a strong emphasis on the T&S because nobody likes other people paying less tax than them.