Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[northernladuk]

Let's look at two things. Firstly, are they inside IR35 or not.

I stopped here. I'm not getting in to a ridiculous argument about 1st line being a small company selling specialist services to clients. Some roles are temporary roles to fill gaps at a client. I. E. Temps. I can't be arsed arguing the technicalities of it but if we can't recognised the differences between temps and specialised resource we'll win nothing.

I'm sorry that there are some people who don't meet your definition of what a contractor is and what doesn't, but that doesn't mean that IPSE (or anyone) should be saying to HMRC "take this guy, don't come after me please".

I quite agree. I made a pretty generic, slightly tongue in cheek swipe so absolutely there will be people that don't fit the definition.

If you don't think HMRC would welcome the prospect of an industry lobby group sacrificing their members, then I think you're deluding yourself. It won't make you safe - it'll weaken any influence you had, and will mean that your demise will come quicker.

We will have to beg to differ here because I completely disagree. Far too hard to discuss any of this but a tight focus group will be a lot harder to argue against than a catchall.

No, it's the same stupid idea - pick a group of people who aren't me, and throw them to the wolves to protect my business.

Not at all. How does the client we deliver to have any impact in how we deliver. They are after us as a group not the clients we work for. It's nothing to do with me. It's who is a small business delivering specialist skills to clients and who is a disguised permie.

It might have been an abrasive suggestion but I don't see any problem with putting out there. I don't see too many other suggestions being put forward however ridiculous or outlandish.

Far too hard to get all my thoughts together on here to make a full and reasoned argument so on this point I'm also done.

[SueEllen]

Not necessarily that you are not a contractor, but maybe the end of yr taxation falls under different rules. Much like IR35, you can be in sometimes and then out. Of the perceived risk is lower maybe the tax (and employee benefits?!) Is higher.....

You are presuming my company year end and my personal year end are the same.

They aren't on purpose so I can spread my final bookkeeping and checking over the year.

Finally every now and then my company hires someone or subcontracts work out.*

How would all this fit into your simple model?

To do such a model HMRC would have to rip up the tax book and redefine how freelancers work particularly with agencies and others plus get better at chasing taxes.

*This was one of the main reasons why I was against IPSEs "freelancer limited company".

[SueEllen]

You can't (in fairness) propose to classify someone as both a disguised employee and an employer for tax purposes and a contractor/self-employed worker for employment law purposes.

This is my big bugbear and why I hope the cases against Uber et al win.

[youngguy]

You are presuming my company year end and my personal year end are the same.

They aren't on purpose so I can spread my final bookkeeping and checking over the year.

Finally every now and then my company hires someone or subcontracts work out.*

How would all this fit into your simple model?

To do such a model HMRC would have to rip up the tax book and redefine how freelancers work particularly with agencies and others plus get better at chasing taxes.

*This was one of the main reasons why I was against IPSEs "freelancer limited company".

I assure you my 'model' is little more than some early spitballing!

I'm just trying to illustrate that the Gov view of tax us like employees but with no rights is the worst of everything.

There may be mileage is trying to work out different tiers for different models as one model isn't going to be fair to all.

Much easier said than done of course

[SueEllen]

I assure you my 'model' is little more than some early spitballing!

I'm just trying to illustrate that the Gov view of tax us like employees but with no rights is the worst of everything.

There may be mileage is trying to work out different tiers for different models as one model isn't going to be fair to all.

Much easier said than done of course

See my post above yours.

[youngguy]

First official response out : covers 38k members apparently http://www.fcsa.org.uk/hmrcs-planned...-consultation/

[youngguy]

Official response to the consultation http://www.fcsa.org.uk/hmrcs-planned...-consultation/

[LondonManc]

First official response out : covers 38k members apparently HMRC’s planned reforms of the intermediaries legislation in the public sector will not provide silver bullet says FCSA in its official response to the consultation

Good. At least they proposed an alternative rather than just poo-pooing the proposal. There's nothing worse than a poo-pooing.

[youngguy]

Haven't read in detail yet but it seems to have picked up a lot of the main concerns . Whether Gov will take any notice is another matter...

[LondonManc]

Haven't read in detail yet but it seems to have picked up a lot of the main concerns . Whether Gov will take any notice is another matter...

It's more the point that rather than simply criticising it, they've offered an alternative.