What is everyone going to do assuming HMR&C and Osborne get their way?

[DaveB]

Go direct to the client? Would that count as being 'in business' as opposed to a 'pseudo employee' as HMRC would see it?

It's a step in the right direction, but I still think we are going to need to show multiple concurrent clients in order to dodge it altogether. What that looks like in practice depends on how they define things in the actual legislation.

3 contractors invoiceing eachother for a day a month A->B->C->A would give everyone multiple clients, at least on paper.

[DimPrawn]

Yep.

Canada is supposed to be heavy taxing country ... whole 29% of taxable income over $138,586!!!

... and they've got great tax funded services.

To be fair they've got also local tax - depends on territory where you live, so there is some choice - 10% in Alberta, overall looks like no worse than 40% here.

Only downside - far away and lots of snow. But if your lifestyle is destroyed by a "pro-business" Tory Scumverment then might as well move.

Max/Min temps---precipitation---sunshine hours

London
Jan: 8C/2C---55mm---61
Feb: 8C/2C---41mm---78
Mar: 11C/4C---42mm---114
Apr: 14C/6C---44mm---168
May: 18C/9C---49mm---197
Jun: 21C/12C---45mm---206
Jul: 24C/14C---45mm---211
Aug: 23C/14C---50mm---203
Sep: 20C/11C---49mm---148
Oct: 16C/8C---69mm---116
Nov: 11C/5C---59mm---72
Dec: 8C/3C---55mm---52

Vancouver
Jan: 6C/1C---154mm---60
Feb: 8C/2C---123mm---85
Mar: 10C/3C---114mm---134
Apr: 13C/5C---84mm---182
May: 17C/8C---68mm---231
Jun: 19C/11C---55mm---229
Jul: 22C/13C---40mm---295
Aug: 22C/13C---39mm---268
Sep: 19C/11C---54mm---199
Oct: 14C/7C---113mm---125
Nov: 9C/3C---181mm---64
Dec: 6C/1C---176mm---56

London is warmer and much drier, but Vancouver gets an extra 300 hours of sun annually.

[d000hg]

Maybe I'll set up a plan B offering advice to contractors how to proceed.

[MarkT]

It's a step in the right direction, but I still think we are going to need to show multiple concurrent clients in order to dodge it altogether. What that looks like in practice depends on how they define things in the actual legislation.

3 contractors invoiceing eachother for a day a month A->B->C->A would give everyone multiple clients, at least on paper.

But what if I invoiced my father in law, a solicitor, for £50 a day consultancy, 1 day a month, then paid it back to him for legal services.....forever...

I like to sail close to the wind....

[DaveB]

But what if I invoiced my father in law, a solicitor, for £50 a day consultancy, 1 day a month, then paid it back to him for legal services.....forever...

I like to sail close to the wind....

This is the kind of stuff that needs to be looked at in detail when we know what the actual outcome is. As I've said before, there will be loopholes. HMRC / HMG are simply not that good at drafting this stuff and there will be far more, and likely far better, people interested in pulling it apart than they can put on creating it to begin with.

[MarkT]

If anyone wants a dogs body to join their team at Lloyd's, I am your man

Sad to say I got the boot in 2012, cost savings.....

[MarkT]

This is the kind of stuff that needs to be looked at in detail when we know what the actual outcome is. As I've said before, there will be loopholes. HMRC / HMG are simply not that good at drafting this stuff and there will be far more, and likely far better, people interested in pulling it apart than they can put on creating it to begin with.

Agree completely with that - it could be a storm in a teacup and we don't actually get bitten at all. I think there will be ways around it, because HMRC are utterly incompetent. I know that because I've worked for them before, via SERCO.

In 2009 my boss there didn't know the different between a FTC and a contractor and asked me to become one, for 5 years. I politely declined indicating why.

[jamesbrown]

It's a step in the right direction, but I still think we are going to need to show multiple concurrent clients in order to dodge it altogether. What that looks like in practice depends on how they define things in the actual legislation.

3 contractors invoiceing eachother for a day a month A->B->C->A would give everyone multiple clients, at least on paper.

If they implement this, it's going to be some sort of turnover requirement (e.g. >30% generated from another source on an annual basis), otherwise it wouldn't be worth the Parliamentary parchment it was written on. However, back in the real world, how is this going to work? I currently have two clients, about 85/15, with another coming online at the end of the year (probably 80/15/5). This varies a lot on any given timeframe. Each of those clients are contracted for different periods, one of them for several years. The mix could be different 6 months from now. Also, one or more contracts could be cancelled without notice. You might go into a financial year expecting to pass such a test and come out having failed. There would be no ability to plan.

If they are going to develop stupid, arbitrary, tests, they at least need to be easily applied. For example, working from your own premises/WFH would be a straightforward exclusion (aligned with lack of SDC on some level). A test of concurrent clients wouldn't be workable unless it was a straightforward yes/no at the end of the year (i.e. did you have concurrent clients at any point during the year?). In that case, it wouldn't be so much a loophole as a gaping chasm.

[centurian]

Yep.

Canada is supposed to be heavy taxing country ... whole 29% of taxable income over $138,586!!!

... and they've got great tax funded services.

To be fair they've got also local tax - depends on territory where you live, so there is some choice - 10% in Alberta, overall looks like no worse than 40% here.

Same argument applies to the US. The "top rate of tax" may be 39.6%, but once you add on state and local taxes, it's a lot more than the 47% marginal Tax+NI rate here, especially in the more affluent states/cities.

And they have a lot more bands. In some places, the top rate kicks in when earning millions.

[_V_]

Same argument applies to the US. The "top rate of tax" may be 39.6%, but once you add on state and local taxes, it's a lot more than the 47% marginal Tax+NI rate here, especially in the more affluent states/cities.

And they have a lot more bands. In some places, the top rate kicks in when earning millions.

But then we have VAT at 20% (more than US sales tax), Council Tax, VAT and Duty on fuel meaning ours costs more than twice the USA.