Reply to: Orange Genie - Skimming allegations

[eek]

The contempt for those who are/were working via Orange Genie and contractors in general is staggering.

I left Orange Genie at the absolute first opportunity. An embarrassing outfit. I have to refrain from going into detail.

The fact the hidden deduction is deemed permissible tells me everything I need to know about this industry and the direction its taking.

It’s morally indefensible but without an employment tribunal saying that it’s wrong nothing can be done about it.

The irony is that I suspect the only agencies still using orange genie have now added an extra £2 a week to the kickback they require for recommendations

[lonewolf]

The contempt for those who are/were working via Orange Genie and contractors in general is staggering.

I left Orange Genie at the absolute first opportunity. An embarrassing outfit. I have to refrain from going into detail.

The fact the hidden deduction is deemed permissible tells me everything I need to know about this industry and the direction its taking.

[eek]

So we now have another article regarding Orange Genie now their 6 month ban has finished.

And it's worth being very clear here as to why it's wrong regardless of what the law says when you argue on the head of a pin.

As a contractor I agree an assignment fee of £x a day and then decide which umbrella firm I use.

And you would hope that because you are giving the umbrella a fee they would be honouring the implicit agreement that every penny they received from the assignment fee should be going in 1 of 4 directions.

The agreed margin (to them)
Employment (employer NI / Apprenticeship levy) and employee tax (to HMRC)
Pension (to your pension pot)
Take home pay to you.

And that when all the figures are totted up - the sum of those 4 figures should be the exact amount the umbrella received from the agency.

And if Orange Genie / Liquid Friday wishes to pocket some additional money they should be being explicit about it and just including it in their margin.

[cojak]

My response to that article was to laugh…

[eek]

Sounds like a very tense interview looking at some of that transcript



Not a response you'd expect in an interview.

He’s basically saying that he regards the money the umbrella receives as his company’s to do with as he and his company desires.

[northernladuk]

For anyone following this, the Orange Genie CEO was recently interviewed by IWORK regarding the recent goings on at the company. Link below.

Please do take into account this same guy has been working for both Orange Genie and Growth Pro (the benefits provider to Orange Genie) for several years. Nothing underhand, though, right?



https://iwork.co.uk/news/orange-geni...vely-to-iwork/

Sounds like a very tense interview looking at some of that transcript

Why didn’t you give umbrella employees the opportunity to opt out?

Opt out? That would suggest that this is a fee that we’re charging the employee, and as we’ve already explained, it isn’t.

Not a response you'd expect in an interview.

[Paralytic]

For anyone following this, the Orange Genie CEO was recently interviewed by IWORK regarding the recent goings on at the company. Link below.

Please do take into account this same guy has been working for both Orange Genie and Growth Pro (the benefits provider to Orange Genie) for several years. Nothing underhand, though, right?



https://iwork.co.uk/news/orange-geni...vely-to-iwork/

So, basically, "we could get away with it, so we did it".

Anyone staying with OG after being treated with such contempt is a mug.

[lonewolf]

For anyone following this, the Orange Genie CEO was recently interviewed by IWORK regarding the recent goings on at the company. Link below.

Please do take into account this same guy has been working for both Orange Genie and Growth Pro (the benefits provider to Orange Genie) for several years. Nothing underhand, though, right?

"Because the umbrella industry is not regulated there is no standard or requirement for what constitutes “employment costs”

https://iwork.co.uk/news/orange-geni...vely-to-iwork/

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I will point out that once Contractor Voice has got enough evidence to confirm their story they don't back down.

Nor should they since OG are clearly in the wrong.

[eek]

May not be relevant but I have used a lawyer, but sent the letter as though by myself to try and diffuse the situation.

I will point out that once Contractor Voice has got enough evidence to confirm their story they don't back down.

[Guy Incognito]

They seem not to be able to afford a lawyer, since the letter was written by themselves.

May not be relevant but I have used a lawyer, but sent the letter as though by myself to try and diffuse the situation.

[cojak]

Blimey. Breached code, failed to timely remedy the breach, sanctioned then failed to comply with the sanction in a timely manner but IAF said terminating was disproportionate? I'd hate to think what you have to do to actually get terminated.

Options 1 to 3 are about FCSA's policies not the actual actions of OG. What's to say they wouldn't have carried on breaching and not taking action? I think OG should think themselves very lucky as that reads the IAF have gone very easy on them.

Yep, but this thread will remain in glorious black and white and contractors finding it will be able to make their own decisions, won't they?

(Barge poles spring to mind here...)

[lucyclarityumbrella]

Who are they telling you to switch to - as I bet that list includes names you may need to switch from again in the next few weeks.

literally the only FSCA umbrella that I know would pass a forensic audit is Clarity because we audited them in real-time for a year and a half

Awww thank you

[northernladuk]

https://fcsa.org.uk/orange-genie-are...november-2022/

Blimey. Breached code, failed to timely remedy the breach, sanctioned then failed to comply with the sanction in a timely manner but IAF said terminating was disproportionate? I'd hate to think what you have to do to actually get terminated.

Options 1 to 3 are about FCSA's policies not the actual actions of OG. What's to say they wouldn't have carried on breaching and not taking action? I think OG should think themselves very lucky as that reads the IAF have gone very easy on them.

[Chris Bryce]

Whilst the restoration of Orange Genie's membership is not automatic - what about repayment of the "deducted" funds? any expectation that these are to be returned before allowing consideration of their membership?

It is far too early to say whether any redress may actually be due to contractors by Orange Genie, and that may take several weeks or even months to ascertain. If any payments to contractors are found to be due those will, of course, be Orange Genie’s sole responsibility.