Orange Genie - Skimming allegations

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Orange Genie sent a "cease and desist" to contractor voice

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/contr...member_desktop

[Andy Hallett]

2) has just made their problem a lot bigger because it's now £4m on which NI should have been paid.

Why should NI have been paid on this? It looks like it is treated as a net deduction.

All very technical this!

[NotAllThere]

Orange Genie sent a "cease and desist" to contractor voice

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/contr...member_desktop

They seem not to be able to afford a lawyer, since the letter was written by themselves.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

They seem not to be able to afford a lawyer, since the letter was written by themselves.

Indeed - it's comedy gold as shown by Contractor Voice's response.

[ComplianceLady]

I'm really interested in this - OJ have issued a statement to Agency partners - not confidential so happy to share though it doesn't say much.

To my mind there are a few un-squareble aspects.

1 - OJ's KID does not include any deductions over and above margin and statutory deductions - it specifies the ERNIC level
2 - The extra cost being deducted from the top line obviously indicates that it's a company cost (and therefore not subject to tax and NI for the employee) but they've gone to the trouble to bundle it with ERNICs rather than the margin - so indicates something underhand happening
3 - it is not included in their pay illustrations

I know tribunals have ruled that deductions pre-Assignment income don't count as unlawful deductions of pay in the past but I do think there's some contractual irregularities and not matching the KID may be what hangs them - in reality the reputational damage is enough.

Must admit this is what will push me from using the FCSA accreditation as a barometer of compliance (I never thought it was perfect but I thought it was better than individually auditing each umbrella myself). I've not found a workable alternative though so any suggestions would be interesting!

"1.11.22 Orange Genie statement We are contacting you to comment on the recent negative allegations which have circulated the industry directly relating to Orange Genie. The allegations of misconduct are false and factually inaccurate. We are currently receiving legal advice in respect of this and will make comment further in due course. We can confirm that we are currently in dialogue with the FCSA regarding these issues. We have been continuously reviewed and accredited by the FCSA for the past 11 years and our processes have remained consistent over this time. We regularly review our payroll systems and processes to ensure continued transparency. Thank you Paul Bresnihan CEO Orange Genie Group"

[NotAllThere]

... Thank you Paul Bresnihan CEO Orange Genie Group"

I'm surprised he found the time with over 50 active appointments listed in Companies House.

[eek]

I'm really interested in this - OJ have issued a statement to Agency partners - not confidential so happy to share though it doesn't say much.

To my mind there are a few un-squareble aspects.

1 - OJ's KID does not include any deductions over and above margin and statutory deductions - it specifies the ERNIC level
2 - The extra cost being deducted from the top line obviously indicates that it's a company cost (and therefore not subject to tax and NI for the employee) but they've gone to the trouble to bundle it with ERNICs rather than the margin - so indicates something underhand happening
3 - it is not included in their pay illustrations

I know tribunals have ruled that deductions pre-Assignment income don't count as unlawful deductions of pay in the past but I do think there's some contractual irregularities and not matching the KID may be what hangs them - in reality the reputational damage is enough.

Must admit this is what will push me from using the FCSA accreditation as a barometer of compliance (I never thought it was perfect but I thought it was better than individually auditing each umbrella myself). I've not found a workable alternative though so any suggestions would be interesting!

"1.11.22 Orange Genie statement We are contacting you to comment on the recent negative allegations which have circulated the industry directly relating to Orange Genie. The allegations of misconduct are false and factually inaccurate. We are currently receiving legal advice in respect of this and will make comment further in due course. We can confirm that we are currently in dialogue with the FCSA regarding these issues. We have been continuously reviewed and accredited by the FCSA for the past 11 years and our processes have remained consistent over this time. We regularly review our payroll systems and processes to ensure continued transparency. Thank you Paul Bresnihan CEO Orange Genie Group"

On 2 even though it's supposedly a company cost because it's not explicitly included in the margin it probably should be a deduction from net pay especially as it seems to have been a taxable benefit based on a conversation reported on LinkedIn (see the question Andy Hallett ) quoted above.

Other things to note -

1) while FCSA's appeal committee doesn't seem to have reached a verdict yet - at least 1 member of that committee (and being blunt the most qualified person on it) liked a CUK post on LinkedIn saying that Orange Genie had been expelled.
2) the amounts are so small that I can't see any tribunal getting very far - the after tax amounts are probably less than £50 a worker. But it seems some of OG's temporary teachers have been with them for years so a better battle may be to seek holiday pay not paid under the harpur trust v brazel case (given that holiday pay was probably deducted and repaid at 12.07% instead of the appropriate figures required for those who work only term time).

3) you asked about suitable accreditation services and there really aren't any - what this confirms is that every payslip needs to be checked in realtime and that rather limits the options and possible approaches.

[eek]

Why should NI have been paid on this? It looks like it is treated as a net deduction.

All very technical this!

From memory - the advice I got from multiple people who know this stuff is that everything not explicitly included in the umbrella's margin should be a deduction from net pay.

Would have to hunt out the references for more details. But my point was it would have been better to have kept quiet rather than claiming the £2 was for access to Orange Genie Edge's membership discounts - as that surely makes things worse rather than better.

[eek]

I'm really interested in this - OJ have issued a statement to Agency partners - not confidential so happy to share though it doesn't say much.

To my mind there are a few un-squareble aspects.

1 - OJ's KID does not include any deductions over and above margin and statutory deductions - it specifies the ERNIC level
2 - The extra cost being deducted from the top line obviously indicates that it's a company cost (and therefore not subject to tax and NI for the employee) but they've gone to the trouble to bundle it with ERNICs rather than the margin - so indicates something underhand happening
3 - it is not included in their pay illustrations

Worth adding that on the very recent orange genie payslip I saw today - the deduction is now a separate line within the received payments / timesheets section

[eek]

So today orange genie were suspended by the FSCA for 6 months and paid an unspecified fine to an unspecified party.

which tells you all you need to know.

Shop very carefully if you need to use an umbrella because FSCA membership by itself means absolutely nothing.

FCSA are happy for members to pull tricks to pocket money and steal holiday pay.