Reply to: Getting back to work as IT consultant after career break of 3 years

[DoctorStrangelove]

Is this in the wrong thread?

qh

Gisajob, I could do that.

Gowon, gisajob.

Purely inspired by your avatar. .

Honest.

[ladymuck]

Is this in the wrong thread?

qh

Or forum? Yes. It has been for several years. Didn't get moved before the upgrade so is destined to live here forever more.

[quackhandle]

Is this in the wrong thread?

qh

[eek]

Welcome back, and it's nice to get a bit of an update on "what happened next". However, I think you'd be better off with a permanent role.

When you interview for a permanent job, they ask questions like "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I.e. they're thinking long-term, and they might be willing to train you up if you'll deliver value to them in return. When you interview for a contract, they want you to have all the necessary skills right now. The idea is that you come in, do the job, and leave. So, a permanent position would give you a chance to refresh your skills, then you can consider contracting.

Looking at your previous posts, you've been talking about starting contracting since 2014, and people have warned you that you might not be suited to it. Did you ever get an official diagnosis of dyslexia/APD? Permanent roles are likely to be more sympathetic to this.



There was quite a significant change to IR35 last year (April 2021), where most clients in the private sector are now responsible for the SDS. If you're not aware of this already, you definitely have more reading to do. You should start with the "first timer" articles on this site, and the sticky posts in the forums.

However, if you don't want to run your own company then IR35 status is irrelevant to you. You would be an employee of someone else's company, getting all your income via PAYE.

You suggested using a friend's company, but you'd be much better off with an umbrella:
a) Several agencies have a PSL (Preferred Supplier List), i.e. they'll restrict you to a list of a few umbrellas, and FriendCo is unlikely to appear there.
b) At best, you'd save £20 a week by using your friend's company, which isn't much.
c) Mixing business with friendship can damage both.

That's £20 before tax - which comes to about £10.50 after tax has been deducted.

[hobnob]

Oh, and if you've not worked for 3 years then you've zero chance of landing a contract. People say you are only as good as your last gig. If that's three years ago you won't get a look in. You've rusty, and possibly out of date skills at best and are up against seasoned contractors straight off another gig probably doing exactly what the client wants.

Contracting is about having valuable and saleable skills that most others don't have and you sell your skills to the clients. It's not a get up to speed, possibly could do that learning phase. Clients are paying top dollar for the best around and with a three year working gap that most certainly isn't you sorry.

It's worth noting that stit had a 3 year gap in Dec 2019 (when this thread started), so it's now a 5 year gap; that doesn't change your conclusions, just emphasises your point.

As I understand it, here's the story so far:

* Prior to 2014, stit worked in an Asian country as a senior developer for 13 years.

* In 2014, stit started work in the UK (Manchester), but failed the probationary period.
"My present situation is that I am seeing an issue with my manager and she seems to be having very high expectations from me. I am sure she will not be giving a good feedback."
Reason for leaving - help needed - Contractor UK Bulletin Board

* After that (2015-2016?), stit worked for a company in London, but got demoted from senior developer to developer. Later, they left this company.
"But, my project got over and they were not finding new projects and also I was not in a situation to travel outside London. So, I was offered a package to end the employment again which I accepted as I was also in a difficult situation to continue working."
Need career advise to join work after a break - Contractor UK Bulletin Board

* Since then, stit has done some stuff with stock trading and cryptocurrency, but no significant IT work.
Can I mention Affiliate marketing, Stock Trading etc on my CV during career break? - Contractor UK Bulletin Board

NB I think this is going to be an issue as a contractor:

I was also told by one of my seniors at work that I could be dyslexic (forgetfulness, slow reading, can not multi-task, Auditory Processing Disorder) which I also feel true. I have not consulted any specialist to confirm if this is true yet. But, these issues were affecting my performance at work.

[northernladuk]

Before I start my job hunt this time, I have a few questions that I need help from experts here.

You aren't job hunting for contracts. Jobs are for perms. You are looking for short term gigs to deliver specific pieces of work. For example. A builder. Is he looking for a job or is he looking to build you a garage or someone a wall?
Very pedantic but I think looking at some of the posts this point is missing you and you are just playing contractor but acting like a disguised perm. Having your thinking right will answer other questions that might otherwise pop up and you don't know.

Permanent jobs have a rigorous tech interview process - tech phone interviews, some coding project homework, onsite coding exercise etc. Do contract jobs also have the same process?

Again, if you understand the difference between what a perm is and does compared to what a contractor is required for and brings to the client you'll know they are different. It's not as black and white as you say though. Not all perm roles are as onerous as you say but for some reason some contracting ones are. There really isn't a standard but in general for a contract role (not job) they are looking to see if you've delivered it before and can hit the ground running on the exact task they have, not to see if you are just an all round decent person.

Has anything changed on the IR 35 for the last 2 years that makes it easier now for IT contractors? I am keen to explore contracting if it is easier to get in first and then take a call after sometime.

You are starting a business so up to you to research I am afraid. A few seconds looking around this forum and just type IR35 in to google will answer that question and give you the resources you need. The noise around the moves has been going on for 5 years with a run up to public sector, then a few years getting ready for private so unless you've had your head in the sand you should know something has changed. It did hit yes so need to go read up but it's been on the cards for well over two years.

If I get a contracting offer, I don't want to start my own company etc. to begin with and my friends are ok to bill from their company and pay me. Any issues with this approach?

Yes, avoid it like the plague. Either start a LTD or go umbrella. Do not dick about with friends LTDs ever.

Considering that I am getting back to work after 4-5 years, I want to start off at a mid level (otherwise, I would have been in senior level) . Can I quote a lower contracting rate so that I have more chances to get in quickly? I would like to revise the rates based on how it goes. For example: For my experience, the market rate is 350 to 450 GBP/day , can I quote 250-300 GBP/per day? Or, even 200 to 250 GBP/day, for a few weeks !

No. The client has a requirement to fill at a set rate. They want someone with the skills at that rate. Dropping your rate might entice an agent to put you forward but all that will happen is they pocket the extra. There is no getting gigs by being cheaper in contracting. They want a skilled person at x rate. Period. If you are not that skilled person then that role is not for you. You wouldn't take a builder on to build a garage for you if he says I haven't done it for awhile can I charge less while I get back up to speed would you?

If I have both inside and outside IR 35 options, which one should I prefer and why? What should be the% billing rate difference between Inside and outside IR 35 for the same net pay?

That might seem like a simple question but it's a massive answer. We've been over that a thousand times in the IR35 Reform and The Future of Contracting sections of the forum as well as the main accounting thread. Endless articles on google about it as well. It's too broader a question to give you anything close to an answer so you are going to have to go do your own research. If you are going contracting you have to stand on your own two feet, no handholding in this industry. Go learn what you do, how you get paid and so on as it the bread and butter of your career now.

Oh, and if you've not worked for 3 years then you've zero chance of landing a contract. People say you are only as good as your last gig. If that's three years ago you won't get a look in. You've rusty, and possibly out of date skills at best and are up against seasoned contractors straight off another gig probably doing exactly what the client wants.

Contracting is about having valuable and saleable skills that most others don't have and you sell your skills to the clients. It's not a get up to speed, possibly could do that learning phase. Clients are paying top dollar for the best around and with a three year working gap that most certainly isn't you sorry.

[hobnob]

Just getting back here after 2 years.

Welcome back, and it's nice to get a bit of an update on "what happened next". However, I think you'd be better off with a permanent role.

When you interview for a permanent job, they ask questions like "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" I.e. they're thinking long-term, and they might be willing to train you up if you'll deliver value to them in return. When you interview for a contract, they want you to have all the necessary skills right now. The idea is that you come in, do the job, and leave. So, a permanent position would give you a chance to refresh your skills, then you can consider contracting.

Looking at your previous posts, you've been talking about starting contracting since 2014, and people have warned you that you might not be suited to it. Did you ever get an official diagnosis of dyslexia/APD? Permanent roles are likely to be more sympathetic to this.

• Has anything changed on the IR 35 for the last 2 years that makes it easier now for IT contractors? I am keen to explore contracting if it is easier to get in first and then take a call after sometime.
• If I get a contracting offer, I don't want to start my own company etc. to begin with and my friends are ok to bill from their company and pay me. Any issues with this approach?
• If I have both inside and outside IR 35 options, which one should I prefer and why? What should be the% billing rate difference between Inside and outside IR 35 for the same net pay?

There was quite a significant change to IR35 last year (April 2021), where most clients in the private sector are now responsible for the SDS. If you're not aware of this already, you definitely have more reading to do. You should start with the "first timer" articles on this site, and the sticky posts in the forums.

However, if you don't want to run your own company then IR35 status is irrelevant to you. You would be an employee of someone else's company, getting all your income via PAYE.

You suggested using a friend's company, but you'd be much better off with an umbrella:
a) Several agencies have a PSL (Preferred Supplier List), i.e. they'll restrict you to a list of a few umbrellas, and FriendCo is unlikely to appear there.
b) At best, you'd save £20 a week by using your friend's company, which isn't much.
c) Mixing business with friendship can damage both.

[stit]

I have been in touch with my old colleagues and they really gave a me a big boost of confidence.
I got 2 permie offers and did not accept them. I may get few more offers in coming weeks and I should be able to accept one of them.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Just getting back here after 2 years. While I was about to join, I had to travel back to my home country because of a medical emergency in my family. Then the corona lockdown completely sealed any possibility of joining back to work. Lost a family member too and getting back to work and career etc. again took a far back seat. Some of my friends offered me work from home IT jobs but it was simply not possible.

After all the storm settled (I thought but now the Ukraine crisis began !), I started my prep for a new innings.
My prep is almost complete now and I am kind of ready for the interviews.

Before I start my job hunt this time, I have a few questions that I need help from experts here.

1. Permanent jobs have a rigorous tech interview process - tech phone interviews, some coding project homework, onsite coding exercise etc. Do contract jobs also have the same process?
2. Has anything changed on the IR 35 for the last 2 years that makes it easier now for IT contractors? I am keen to explore contracting if it is easier to get in first and then take a call after sometime.
3. If I get a contracting offer, I don't want to start my own company etc. to begin with and my friends are ok to bill from their company and pay me. Any issues with this approach?
4. Considering that I am getting back to work after 4-5 years, I want to start off at a mid level (otherwise, I would have been in senior level) . Can I quote a lower contracting rate so that I have more chances to get in quickly? I would like to revise the rates based on how it goes. For example: For my experience, the market rate is 350 to 450 GBP/day , can I quote 250-300 GBP/per day? Or, even 200 to 250 GBP/day, for a few weeks !
5. If I have both inside and outside IR 35 options, which one should I prefer and why? What should be the% billing rate difference between Inside and outside IR 35 for the same net pay?

Thanks in advance for any help here.

[stit]

I wouldn't wait. There are droves of contractors leaving their gigs in the next 4 weeks. Could possibly the worst month to look for a perm job in a decade.

Oh ok. Thanks for alerting and giving me a context !

I have even got few calls for contracting but IR 35 to replace the previous outgoing outside IR 35 ones. But, yet to have the final rounds !

[northernladuk]

I wouldn't wait. There are droves of contractors leaving their gigs in the next 4 weeks. Could possibly the worst month to look for a perm job in a decade.

[stit]

find a permie job for a company that are disorganised tightwads.

Probably with some obsolete & obscure technology which you can use your skills to fix.

Sounds like you have a confidence problem, after a redundancy I found the easiest way to fix that is to talk to old colleagues & managers. A few of them made me realise I was better than I remember, a few interviews later I was working for a bunch of idiots fixing some obscure code but using technologies I wanted to use.

A year later I was earning more than ever and working fewer hours for a nicer team. You only need one employer to bring you back in, you do need all your courage & confidence to get there.

Construct a narrative as to why you were out for 3 years, it should be true & believable but does not have to be complete.

I have been in touch with my old colleagues and they really gave a me a big boost of confidence.
I got 2 permie offers and did not accept them. I may get few more offers in coming weeks and I should be able to accept one of them.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

[vetran]

find a permie job for a company that are disorganised tightwads.

Probably with some obsolete & obscure technology which you can use your skills to fix.

Sounds like you have a confidence problem, after a redundancy I found the easiest way to fix that is to talk to old colleagues & managers. A few of them made me realise I was better than I remember, a few interviews later I was working for a bunch of idiots fixing some obscure code but using technologies I wanted to use.

A year later I was earning more than ever and working fewer hours for a nicer team. You only need one employer to bring you back in, you do need all your courage & confidence to get there.

Construct a narrative as to why you were out for 3 years, it should be true & believable but does not have to be complete.

[sal]

Forget about contracting in the current market in your circumstances. Best case scenario you will get inside IR35 gig at lowish rate, little better than a perm net pay. Only to find the second contract is much harder and fall on hard times.

Get a junior role in a decent company and climb the ladder there, or jump ship from the security of a permanent employment with paid leave and sick pay.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Unless you want to teach, then it might be handy

A Masters wouldn't get you into Ye Newe Sloughe of Desponde these days, 10 years ago, maybe, these days PhD or take a hike.

Things are a bit more relaxed further down the food chain in FE but since the Esteemed Customers are under 18 there's "other" checks required.

[Hobosapien]

If 3 years out of the game makes you a non-starter, where does it leave an like me who left the IT world 13 years ago?

I guess I'll have to settle for a part-time job at B&Q or collecting trolleys at the local Tesco.

No one has 13 years experience in the latest IT buzzwords.

So while the fast paced changing world of IT is usually a disadvantage in terms of having to keep up with the latest skills, the advantage is the only challenge from having significant time away is getting the first contract (or job if you are a masochist) and then you're back on the hamster wheel as if you'd never been away.

With the current climate in IT contracting, getting skilled up in a niche where demand outstrips supply that fits your previous experience, is probably one way of breaking back in. If you were run of the mill code monkey then join the queue, it's only a few million long, all the way to India.