Reply to: I am going to open a computer shop to justify being outside IR35

[NotAllThere]

I would refuse any new inside IR35 roles on the basis that I am operating as a company not as an employee.

How about don't open any shop, and do this anyway?

[AnthonyQuinn]

do you read anything?

[eek]

Bottom line create a product with a name, a beginining, a middle and end. A clear view of what it does and exactly how much it costs and the value it delivers. One Fee. THEN design clearly defined add on's and upsells, support contracts and the like with clear pricing. Also learn how to sell properly and give up the idea that you can package a bum on seat contract as a product.

This

To other contractors and some contractors here already know my views on the sales ability of most contractors. If you want to pull something like this off. Please, budget for and get some proper training in sales. Its for the best. Trust me.

and this.

[courtg9000]

No I am not. I am simply operating my business as a business and if they don't want to do business with other small business within the IT sector then they will have to go without. I will continue to offer my services until I am large enough for them to consider me as an option. Bit of a barrier to entry and I am sure the large IT companies are pleased those pesky start ups and contractors are not going to be taking their business any longer.

Trying to convert a bum on seat 3/6 month contract into a product is not going to help you really and the other thing is that you need to be able to sell in that mindset. Your answer to my laptop sales question was non-existent. To be fair is the answer is under 10% of the lorry in pipeline or sold by the end of one day then you are need to get some serious help with selling and that costs. Also the resources you need for this are very thin on the ground and often booked up 12 months or more in advance.

Otherwise its squeaky bum time with HMRC. Oh and remember this. HMRC don't make big announcements with contractors because they can't really get away with it. If they turn up on site the client will likely quell it and your colleagues will have a little snigger and not much more.

BUT if you run a shop HMRC will have no issues with announcing rather loudly who they are and why they are there when they visit and the more arsey the inspector the more likely they are going to make their entrance when you have visitors! HMRC love doing this with pubs, hotels, restaurants and retail.

To pull this off.

Bottom line create a product with a name, a beginining, a middle and end. A clear view of what it does and exactly how much it costs and the value it delivers. One Fee. THEN design clearly defined add on's and upsells, support contracts and the like with clear pricing. Also learn how to sell properly and give up the idea that you can package a bum on seat contract as a product.

That is all I have to say on this to you.

To other contractors and some contractors here already know my views on the sales ability of most contractors. If you want to pull something like this off. Please, budget for and get some proper training in sales. Its for the best. Trust me.

[malvolio]

No I am not. I am simply operating my business as a business and if they don't want to do business with other small business within the IT sector then they will have to go without. I will continue to offer my services until I am large enough for them to consider me as an option. Bit of a barrier to entry and I am sure the large IT companies are pleased those pesky start ups and contractors are not going to be taking their business any longer.

That makes little sense, but hey...

But the thing is, if you won't get or won't take the business on offer, how exactly will you grow to the point whree you can join hte big boys. And unless you are offering complete end-to-end solutions you will still be inside IR35 (or dealing with people who won't deal with PSCs, which is the same difference).

Take it to Dragon's Den, see how far you get there.

And FTAOD, several of us have run or are running genuine businesses and do have a reasonable idea what we are talking about.

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

No, you're assuming that the client takes into consideration you having a shop or office when making their status determination. If the shop/office/garden shed is material to the contract then maybe it would be considered. But if all you're doing is PM'ing a desktop rollout then you're deluding yourself and continuing to expect otherwise is starting to feel like a sockie windup.

No I am not. I am simply operating my business as a business and if they don't want to do business with other small business within the IT sector then they will have to go without. I will continue to offer my services until I am large enough for them to consider me as an option. Bit of a barrier to entry and I am sure the large IT companies are pleased those pesky start ups and contractors are not going to be taking their business any longer.

[ladymuck]

we're not allowed to say that anymore.


Although this one feels genuine. It's just too original for a *ahem*

Oh! I didn't get that memo. Noted, thank you for the heads up.

[Lance]

starting to feel like a sockie windup.

we're not allowed to say that anymore.


Although this one feels genuine. It's just too original for a *ahem*

[ladymuck]

You are all assuming that corporate clients needs to know that you have a shop or office.

No, you're assuming that the client takes into consideration you having a shop or office when making their status determination. If the shop/office/garden shed is material to the contract then maybe it would be considered. But if all you're doing is PM'ing a desktop rollout then you're deluding yourself and continuing to expect otherwise is starting to feel like a sockie windup.

[eek]

You are all assuming that corporate clients needs to know that you have a shop or office.

Not quite we are just assuming you haven't got a clue what you are talking about

[IR35equalshateoflittleguy]

You are all assuming that corporate clients needs to know that you have a shop or office.

[malvolio]

Serious? how can they accuse me of being a disguised employee when I have a business premises? As a business owner, I don't have time nor is reasonable for me to become an employee of every client that I take on.

Perfectly easily - if you took note of my first post in this thread.

Firstly IR35 is decided on a per contract basis. What else you are up to is irrelevant.

Secondly, you can only claim to be outside IR35 if you are supplying a turnkey project, i.e. a complete deliverable using your own resources, and even then it can be challenged. Supplying manpower replacement definitely isn't it. Doing bits of a project probably isn't either.

Thirdly, big corporates aren't going to deal with a risky, skinny resourced bloke on the high street, they use other big corporates for a reason.

And finally, when in a hole it is wise to stop digging at some point.

[northernladuk]

I've yet to see a respectable consultancy working out of a computer tat shop. Surely an office would look better wouldn't it?

[eek]

Don't give me the "client decides" line either, because they wouldn't be deciding that in the first place if HMRC hadn't forced them to do so.

The client also decides who they want to work with - and I strongly suspect it wouldn’t be you

[jamesbrown]

Serious? how can they accuse me of being a disguised employee when I have a business premises? As a business owner, I don't have time nor is reasonable for me to become an employee of every client that I take on.

Or you're a disguised permie with a shed.