Reply to: I hope no-one's in Plymouth

[minestrone]

Made some comments about paedophiles in government in 2018 so he is instantly tagged with the QAnon stuff.

"echoing the QAnon belief that a cabal of Satan-worshiping elites who run a child sex ring"

But it was all over the news back then...

British Lawmaker Tom Watson Links Unnamed Former Prime Minister To Pedophile Ring | HuffPost UK (huffingtonpost.co.uk)

[northernladuk]

LM’s called it.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-supporter-shooting/

Got to say it's certainly looks like it's going down that line but can we trust that news outlet? I've never heard of it before and it's very early to be calling it. It looks like a US site hence the Trump line. I personally wouldn't be taking anything away from that until it starts coming from a reputable news source.

[cojak]

LM’s called it.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-supporter-shooting/

[northernladuk]

Anyone who appears to randomly shoot passers by or go on a pre meditated murder spree is likely to be considered insane.

Absolutely but then couldn't the same be said for a young people for throwing themselves off bridges when they could have a long happy life with their family etc. There is a wide spectrum as LM says though, but you could argue both have similarities i.e. to be in a place where harm is an option, even though the outcomes are either edge of the extremes. Either way, still very very sad to come to anything near that and as you say, we are poor at dealing with it at even a basic level.

He wasn't defending himself from abuse or bullying so I think it stands.

And I'm pretty sure you are right.

Mental health is an issue we are rubbish at dealing with in the UK.

Retaining your virginity until your 20s is considered odd nowadays, 100 years ago you would have married in your teens or wait until marriage. losing your virginity before marriage was frowned upon, many youngsters who lost it before were shunned and took their own lives. when its expected that you lose it then the pressure is the other way.

Sex is one of our strongest motivators expect it to screw up some people.

Crazy stuff but yep.

[vetran]

I think nutter is a bit harsh at this point until we know the backstory. Granted it maybe what he turned out to be but I am sure there is going to be a lot of analysis how he got to this stage. I think there is a very different thing between a perfectly sane person taking a conscious decision to do something based on readings/indoctrination and someone that's so utterly depressed to a point he does something really stupid.

Before I get flamed I am in no way saying there is an excuse for what he's done. It's absolutely awful for all involved but later on it is worth looking on to why did this happen. Mental health or outright nutter. If this type of thing is to be avoided in the future it's important to look at the problem. More focus on mental health in young men or a confidential hotline for nutters with dangerous views for example. I don't think just writing him off as a nutter, grieving and then moving on will help.

EDIT : Maybe a bit early to make these points thinking about it....

Anyone who appears to randomly shoot passers by or go on a pre meditated murder spree is likely to be considered insane.

He wasn't defending himself from abuse or bullying so I think it stands.

Mental health is an issue we are rubbish at dealing with in the UK.

Retaining your virginity until your 20s is considered odd nowadays, 100 years ago you would have married in your teens or wait until marriage. losing your virginity before marriage was frowned upon, many youngsters who lost it before were shunned and took their own lives. when its expected that you lose it then the pressure is the other way.

Sex is one of our strongest motivators expect it to screw up some people.

[ladymuck]

Oh. So "lonely", but give it a catchy name and it's a cause. I genuinely thought Incel was something like QAnon from the name!

There are some QAnon links with the plethora of of conspiracy theories. Like with most things, there's a spectrum. There's lonely at one end through to manic psychopath at the other.

[d000hg]

Oh. So "lonely", but give it a catchy name and it's a cause. I genuinely thought Incel was something like QAnon from the name!

[Fraidycat]

I really don't get the mental link "I'm suicidal so I'll go shoot a load of other people" but I never heard of Incel... is it linked?

The most (in)famous incel mass shooter was the US shooter Elliot Rodger, that was about seven years. Loads of videos about him.

This guy is the UK version. Both seems to be be have mental health issues that made it hard for them to get girlfriends.

Both said they cant understand/find it unfair that lesser men seem to have no problems getting women.

The 'I'll go shoot loads of other people' seem to be a final act of revenge at how unfair life has been for them.

Its like what Val Kilmer says to Kurt Russell in the film Tombstone 'Its revenge for being born'

[ladymuck]

While the UK has strict gun control rules it's not THAT hard. He was a registered gun owner though I haven't seen details.

I really don't get the mental link "I'm suicidal so I'll go shoot a load of other people" but I never heard of Incel... is it linked?

Incel is shorthand for 'involuntarily celibate'. Almost exclusively men who complain they can't get a girlfriend.

They probably start off ok and then through unfortunate combination of events / personality traits compounded by access to incel material they end up radically misogynistic, believing that women are the cause of all their problems and owe them something. Some will go on to rape and sexual assault because they believe it's their right to take what's not being freely offered.

It's possible this chap wanted to kill women but the men got in the way. That's pure speculation on my part.

[d000hg]

Sounds mentally unstable, going to be interesting to find out how he got access to a gun.

While the UK has strict gun control rules it's not THAT hard. He was a registered gun owner though I haven't seen details.

I really don't get the mental link "I'm suicidal so I'll go shoot a load of other people" but I never heard of Incel... is it linked?

[northernladuk]

there is a video on the wail.

Very sad another nutter.

I think nutter is a bit harsh at this point until we know the backstory. Granted it maybe what he turned out to be but I am sure there is going to be a lot of analysis how he got to this stage. I think there is a very different thing between a perfectly sane person taking a conscious decision to do something based on readings/indoctrination and someone that's so utterly depressed to a point he does something really stupid.

Before I get flamed I am in no way saying there is an excuse for what he's done. It's absolutely awful for all involved but later on it is worth looking on to why did this happen. Mental health or outright nutter. If this type of thing is to be avoided in the future it's important to look at the problem. More focus on mental health in young men or a confidential hotline for nutters with dangerous views for example. I don't think just writing him off as a nutter, grieving and then moving on will help.

EDIT : Maybe a bit early to make these points thinking about it....

[eek]

Torygraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...youtube-video/


The suspected Plymouth shooter described being “defeated by life” in videos recorded just weeks before the massacre, as he blamed his troubles on not having a girlfriend.

Jake Davison, a 23-year-old apprentice crane operator, described himself on his YouTube channel as an ‘incel’ and made references to the ‘blackpill’ philosophy to which the radical fringe group subscribes.

That is going to be a big problem going forward - the move towards tindr has made things way more difficult for many men....

[northernladuk]

Wasn't there a CUKer called BigBluePlymouth or summit?

Yeah but that was in relation to the car and he was a sockie anyway.

[xoggoth]

Wasn't there a CUKer called BigBluePlymouth or summit?

[vetran]

Any evidence of that? It's in none of the reports I've read.

there is a video on the wail.

Very sad another nutter.