Reply to: Reform UK abolishing IR35

[northernladuk]

This is the crux of it, live with who we already have here. If it comes to that, we will figure out a way to do so, people and the economy will adjust over time..

Thinking about it every time someone pushes for changes to IR35 it get's progressively worse. Remember a couple of years ago people complaining about IR35 and saying it has to be fixed. They fixed it by attempting to push everyone inside.. yeah right, thanks for that.

Maybe we would be better keeping quiet and not pushing for anymore change as it won't be in our favour if it does. I'd give my right arm to have to have the old broken IR35 back.

[sreed]

There isn't one. It's too late. Only thing they can do is get tough, try get it under control and then just continue to live with what we've got. If they don't we're gonna be screwed in a decade or less.

[/QUOTE]

This is the crux of it, live with who we already have here. If it comes to that, we will figure out a way to do so, people and the economy will adjust over time.

And while they’re at it, take steps to ensure that there is some diversity in the countries that we take immigrants from, rather than the overwhelming majority being from a single large and much poorer country.

But that doesn’t keep Rishi’s GDP ponzi scheme going, whereby they keep shovelling in immigrants so it props up consumption and demand in the country and keeps GDP ‘growing’.

[Cookielove]

It’s extremely worrying!
Needs drastic action now …I’m seriously worried for what kids are facing 😞

[JustKeepSwimming]

There isn't one. It's too late. Only thing they can do is get tough, try get it under control and then just continue to live with what we've got. If they don't we're gonna be screwed in a decade or less.

Depends how strict and 'draconian' you want to be. The law can be easily changed to stop the whole Visa/limited leave to remain > indefinite leave to remain > citizenship chain. That would capture millions of migrants.

Effectively anyone who does not currently have citizenship is at the whim of Parliament.

Unfortunately far too many people have swallowed the propaganda that all immigration is good immigration.

[northernladuk]

What is the answer?!

There isn't one. It's too late. Only thing they can do is get tough, try get it under control and then just continue to live with what we've got. If they don't we're gonna be screwed in a decade or less.













[/QUOTE]

[Cookielove]

sreed totally agree!

The government have opened to doors to those from far, far poorer countries and the knock on effect is that have dragged our way of life/standard of living down...at my last place they were hiring in from Mumbai and looking to do anything but hire UK people as deemed too expensive when they can get someone in India to do the job for a fraction of the price...

It is a mess...the landscape has changed so much in last 20 years and not for the better....other countries put their own first but no in the UK!

What is the answer?!

[SussexSeagull]

Growing? Is it not the number one vote winning/losing topic already?

I campaign for a political party and knock on quite a few doors and it rarely gets mentioned.

[sreed]

It's normally top 3, yes.

Frankly, you get comments like this that blunt any real action, despite immigration being one of the major causes of the citied issues.

Look at Europe, even places like NYC and San Fran. 'SHUT UP YOU'RE JUST RACIST' is no longer landing as a deflection of the issue.

You're a good few years late to the party. Crying waycist hasn't worked for a good while now, not that it's helped us in the UK in any way.

The Tories hoodwinked the general public (including me) with their pre-Brexit hard-on-immigration playacting and since then have deliberately and consciously opened the floodgates to all and sundry from far poorer countries across the globe.

Even as someone who idiotically (in hindsight) voted for Brexit, I would much rather we had the kind of immigration pre Brexit from a wide spectrum of European countries than the 2-3x times mass immigration that we now have from a handful of much poorer large developing countries. At least some of the Europeans would be expected to go back (or go ofg to greener pastures if there's a UK downturn), the non-EU immigrants largely won't.

And now they (and their media lapdogs) are following the same playbook focusing on the broken tile on the roof (the boat people) while the back door is wide open to mass immigration.

And the other posters are absolutely right to suggest that the Tories use anti-immigration sentiment (while actively enabling mass immigration) as a vote getter hoping the public will ignore the absolute trashing that they've given to pretty much every aspect of life in this country, be that healthcare, crime, education, corruption, housing, taxes, etc.

[JustKeepSwimming]

It's not "shut up you're just racist", it's a fact that our current government/media are not interested in helping poor people in our country, or making sure we have affordable electricity, clean water, a working health service. Instead they find the easiest thing to blame. Keep pumping out the idea that all the problems in this country would be solved if we could just stop all immigration, doesn't matter what race or religion, stop it all.
14 years ago they filled us with promises that a couple of years of austerity and then the nation would be back on track. The nation never got back on track. The poor got poorer. The rich got richer. The rich convinced those in the middle that it was the fault of the poor, and so it went on.
Reducing immigration will not help feed anyone. It won't create skilled jobs. It won't provide free 3rd level education. But it makes a cheaper headline than tackling the long term issues that this country has.

I did split the comment in half to try and not attach the assertion to you.

I do think it's a cop out to try and blame the Government (or media) for concerns over immigration, removing all agency from the people. Its gaslighting. It's the old Remainer 'You only think that because you're stupid and brainwashed by the right wing media'.

The rich are getting richer. Immigration control won't solve everything. Lack immigration is what is making the rich richer. We are all professionals here, we have all see our wages stagnate, we have all looked around the office and see a leading cause of that. That's no hate on immigrants, we would all do the same if it was us (and some of us have done it ourselves), but you can't escape economic reality. Companies are importing resources rather than training those they already have because it's cheaper.

Reducing immigration will increase wages.

Immigration does not create skilled jobs. Skilled jobs will be created with or without immigration. We aren't talking about world leaders in AI or green energy.

Water and energy have nothing to do with immigration.

The NHS relies on immigration but not fundamentally, it's due to mismanagement. There is more than enough supply of people wanting to become doctors and nurses but insufficient training places, in part, because immigration is cheaper.

[WTFH]

Frankly, you get comments like this that blunt any real action, despite immigration being one of the major causes of the citied issues.
...Look at Europe, even places like NYC and San Fran. 'SHUT UP YOU'RE JUST RACIST' is no longer landing as a deflection of the issue.

It's not "shut up you're just racist", it's a fact that our current government/media are not interested in helping poor people in our country, or making sure we have affordable electricity, clean water, a working health service. Instead they find the easiest thing to blame. Keep pumping out the idea that all the problems in this country would be solved if we could just stop all immigration, doesn't matter what race or religion, stop it all.
14 years ago they filled us with promises that a couple of years of austerity and then the nation would be back on track. The nation never got back on track. The poor got poorer. The rich got richer. The rich convinced those in the middle that it was the fault of the poor, and so it went on.
Reducing immigration will not help feed anyone. It won't create skilled jobs. It won't provide free 3rd level education. But it makes a cheaper headline than tackling the long term issues that this country has.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Growing? Is it not the number one vote winning/losing topic already?

It's normally top 3, yes.

Frankly, you get comments like this that blunt any real action, despite immigration being one of the major causes of the citied issues.

It's a great distraction from others, such as energy, sewage, health, education, housing, poverty, etc.

Look at Europe, even places like NYC and San Fran. 'SHUT UP YOU'RE JUST RACIST' is no longer landing as a deflection of the issue.

[BigLadFromBeeston666]

As much as I despise IR35 legislation, an ultra right-wing nationalist government is probably the last thing this country needs right now.

[Snooky]

a 75 year wartime-like Corona Bond, with a fixed notional interest rate of 2%

Right. Good luck getting anyone to buy that bond when even high street savings accounts are offering in excess of 5%.

[malvolio]

Growing? Is it not the number one vote winning/losing topic already?

I worked out once just how many contractors in scope of IR35 that are likely to be in each constituency. Suffice it to say there are not enough to make any difference to anything but a dozen or so properly marginal seats. Banning IR35 is a simple headline grabber, just like ULEZs* and 20 mph speed limits, but largely irrelevant in terms of getting an election majority.


*And you will note that Uxbridge is in the ULEZ zone...

[WTFH]

Growing? Is it not the number one vote winning/losing topic already?

It's a great distraction from others, such as energy, sewage, health, education, housing, poverty, etc.