Reply to: COVID Vaccine Mandates

[WTFH]

They didn't say this. Naughty.

I didn't even know any companies in the UK were requiring vaccination, or could do outside specific areas?

The OP is the one who wants to be able to include vaccination requirements in a job search.
Based on previous posts of his and the tone used in some of his replies to this thread, one could be drawn to the possibility that he considers the IF statement to be true.

[d000hg]

if you believe that vaccination is a bad thing..

They didn't say this. Naughty.

I didn't even know any companies in the UK were requiring vaccination, or could do outside specific areas?

[northernladuk]

You're confusing two things. The OP was not about making it mandatory for employees; it was suggesting it may be required before an employment/contract offer is made.

In the first instance, unless the contract covered it, an employer could no enforce it. In the second, no contract exists and the employer can choose who they want to employee and not having a vaccine, is, as far as I know, not a protected cohort.

But again, you can't lump employment in with contracts and suppliers. You just won't be able to make a useful statement if you try and cover both with one sentence.

But the convo has lost track, or I certainly have. The original comment I was responding to was 'so clients are really proscribing suppliers whose staff are not vaccinated ... effectively discrimination on grounds of personal choice.'

I then put a side note which looking back wasn't helpful as we've focussed on that causing the confusion. I put 'Any employer that doesn't have a direct requirement to mandate it, like healthcare workers, would be breaking the law. Discriminating against you for not being vaccinated is illegal.' And you've picked up on that point so we've got off topic a bit.

I did say this was all hypothetic, it's a very complex area and one that the need is diminishing rapidly as time moves on. But as LM says, not having a vaccine is not protected but the reasons for someone not having it i.e. religious or health is protected.

To go back to the OP's questions, covid vaccination issues are not what they were and we are returning to normal so less and less likely that vaccines are becoming an issue around employment or suppliers so any list he can find will be out of date. And there isn't one because we didn't mandate it like the US did so he needs to ask the agent/or client individually as he applies for roles.

[Paralytic]

A whole host of them. Covid Vaccines are not mandatory so making them blanket mandatory for your employees would likely be illegal.

You're confusing two things. The OP was not about making it mandatory for employees; it was suggesting it may be required before an employment/contract offer is made.

In the first instance, unless the contract covered it, an employer could no enforce it. In the second, no contract exists and the employer can choose who they want to employee and not having a vaccine, is, as far as I know, not a protected cohort.

[ladymuck]

Vaccine status is not a protected characteristic but an individual affected by such a policy could challenge a decision based on one of those characteristics.

This is an interesting read

https://www.blakemorgan.co.uk/employ...-unvaccinated/

[northernladuk]

Which law or statue would that break??

It's not discriminatory if its a rule that applies to everyone and that rule is based on a choice someone makes of their own free will.

Forcing existing employees to get vaccinated on threat of termination is different, unless the employment contract in place already covers that scenario.

A whole host of them. Covid Vaccines are not mandatory so making them blanket mandatory for your employees would likely be illegal. They may not want them on reglious, ethical and health reasons so cannot blanket mandate it. If you did you would be discriminating against their religious beliefs and all sorts. It's a proper HR minefield. If they won't take it the employer would have to go down avenues to support that persons requirements which yes, can end in dismissal in certain circumstances but the employer needs to prove they've attempted to accommodate that individual as far as possible. Could be moving them locations, roles or whatever. But blanket sacking people for not taking the vaccine is just ridiculous.

Have a read of this. It's not straightforward at all.
https://www.cipd.co.uk/knowledge/fun...ccination#gref

And of course it can be discriminatory if it's applied to all. Even more so than normal if it's a blanket policy that doesn't take in to account individuals circumstances. That's a ridiculous statement.

[Paralytic]

On another note. Any employer that doesn't have a direct requirement to mandate it, like healthcare workers, would be breaking the law. Discriminating against you for not being vaccinated is illegal.

Which law or statue would that break??

It's not discriminatory if its a rule that applies to everyone and that rule is based on a choice someone makes of their own free will.

Forcing existing employees to get vaccinated on threat of termination is different, unless the employment contract in place already covers that scenario.

[northernladuk]

This is interesting; so clients are really proscribing suppliers whose staff are not vaccinated ... effectively discrimination on grounds of personal choice.

It's a very hypothetical discussion but out of interest.

No they aren't. It's not mandatory for employees so certainly isn't mandatory for suppliers. I am sure in the past there were some barriers to suppliers, for example going in to hospitals at the height of the pandemic so it would have been quite right to impose restrictions on the supplier that staff are vaccinated when attending sites but not now.

Working in service I've seen a lot of contracts with suppliers and never seen a single clause that relates to the suppliers staff. It could do in certain cirmumstances, like the hospital or SC cleared for military but that's then written in to the contract and doesn't discriminate against an individual. It's up to the supplier to make sure they don't discriminate when putting their employees with a client.

And that's is why Mall is wholly wrong. A medical mandate wouldn't apply to all in the same format. Again, in some instances where only SC clears staff can attend site or only vaccinated people can attend lockdown hospitals maybe but that's contractual depending on service. Not blanket policies that affect staff and inviduals from a supplier.

On another note. Any employer that doesn't have a direct requirement to mandate it, like healthcare workers, would be breaking the law. Discriminating against you for not being vaccinated is illegal.

[Protagoras]

Many years ago I went for a permie interview with a large American consultancy firm. Went quite well until they mentioned that they would not employ anyone who wore a beard, under any circumstances. They were quite surprised when I terminated our meeting when all I had to do was shave it off.

Presumably an organisation that didn't use Unix

[WTFH]

People make strange rules that make perfect sense to them. Network Rail ban all their staff, including suppliers, from drinking during the working day on the basis that drivers and signalmen can't so nobody should.

Same sort of thing at some of the big construction firms...
You must reverse into a parking space (it's safer and it's how the lorries do it)
You must hold on to a hand rail when climbing/descending stairs. If you're carrying something that needs both hands, then take the lift.
etc.

[Snooky]

Many years ago I went for a permie interview with a large American consultancy firm. Went quite well until they mentioned that they would not employ anyone who wore a beard, under any circumstances. They were quite surprised when I terminated our meeting when all I had to do was shave it off.

ISTR EDS had this rule back in the day, when Ross Perot held it in his little iron grip.

[SussexSeagull]

Many years ago I went for a permie interview with a large American consultancy firm. Went quite well until they mentioned that they would not employ anyone who wore a beard, under any circumstances. They were quite surprised when I terminated our meeting when all I had to do was shave it off.

People make strange rules that make perfect sense to them. Network Rail ban all their staff, including suppliers, from drinking during the working day on the basis that drivers and signalmen can't so nobody should.

So they wouldn't employ a male Muslim?

[malvolio]

Many years ago I went for a permie interview with a large American consultancy firm. Went quite well until they mentioned that they would not employ anyone who wore a beard, under any circumstances. They were quite surprised when I terminated our meeting when all I had to do was shave it off.

People make strange rules that make perfect sense to them. Network Rail ban all their staff, including suppliers, from drinking during the working day on the basis that drivers and signalmen can't so nobody should.

[WTFH]

Only company I have seen put it in the job ad was IBM. Not sure if it applies to Contract also.

Your best bet is to speak to the agents you deal with and explain what it is that makes it an issue for you, then they can help with putting you forward, or not, from roles based on what you have told them.
If you're applying direct to clients, then you need to ask them. Given that the UK does not currently have any covid rules, then anything that exists will be at the client's discretion. Same with any other client requirements, and it's not discrimination.

[mallisarealperson]

Only company I have seen put it in the job ad was IBM. Not sure if it applies to Contract also.