Reply to: Java dev transition to contracting

[WTFH]

If I see a CV that cites Stack Overflow reputation then I assume the candidate will be spending all of their time on Stack Overflow rather than working.

In any case it isn't really valuable to employers.

In the early days of internet forums (i.e. 20+ years ago), I was involved on a forum about a particular piece of software where I had both asked a few questions and posted several answers. It wasn't a social community, purely Q&A about the software. Not only was it good to get help and to learn, but people also got work as a result of posting on it. I had a couple of interviews where the "knowledge" questions sometimes asked questions that had been asked on that forum, or would ask if I was the same person as the one named on the forum, because it was clear from my answers that I actually knew what I was talking about.

...but that was 2 decades ago.

[TheDude]

Do they check your contribution on Stackoverflow?

If I see a CV that cites Stack Overflow reputation then I assume the candidate will be spending all of their time on Stack Overflow rather than working.

In any case it isn't really valuable to employers.

[Run Guran]

In my experience most certifications are useless - if you are not confident that you can walk into an interview and write code then you are probably not ready for contracting yet unless you are happy to accept a low rate.

Github side projects are a good way of demonstrating experience to employers if they are of a reasonable standard.

Do they check your contribution on Stackoverflow?

[rocktronAMP]

I am considering transitioning to contracting and I would like to ask about a few things - not necessarily about the diference between inside/outside IR35 etc, bench time, saving money etc, I've done some reading by now. I would appreciate if experienced contractors could share their views on what I ask about below or tell about their experience.

I thought I might as well ask about things that could let me gain a better picture of the reality when being a dev contractor, or maybe things that will help gain more confidence. Although I've some other thread here and on other forums I never found people asking some of the questions that I have in mind.

I've done over 5 years in permanent roles, but only a part of it using the latest tech stack, that is microservices with spring boot and cloud, always Java 8 at the most. Not sure if it matters but I graduated being older than an average graduate, so I'm past my 30 birthday having just 5 years of experience in a technical role.
I'm rather far from London currently but I'm seriously considering moving somewhere around this year summer at the latest. Although I will definitely prefer WFH/remote roles or 1-2 days a month in the office.


1) Do they care for certificates if I have a limited hands-on experience with a technology - eg. privotal spring, aws developer, oracle java 11? Is experience in side projects more pragmatic? I'm guessing nobody will read code on github if I keep my side projects there?... Or will they?

2) How likely is it to find jobs/gigs where you work on something from scratch or with a ready design? Or is it also mostly about maintaining old/bad code as in most of permanent roles?

3) In one of the other threads here I read that developers have no problem at all finding contracts nowadays - I don't remember the exact wording of that post but it a bit of as a witty exaggeration. Is it actually that easy if you have skills/experience?

4) Do you alwasy work as a part of an agile team? Is it possible to find jobs where you deliver and communicate just to clarify requirements, or is more like freelancing?

5) Can I work from anywhere? Or is it a standard 6 months rule in the tax context (considering outside IR35)? Or is it a question for an accountant?

...and finally

6) Is it usually possible to walk away from a job? Is there such clause in the contract? Let's say if the job turned out to be a complete crap, toxic environment or other things.

Do you know that Java 8 is nearly 10 years old now?
You want a shop that is using the LTS Java 17 in 2022, failing that Java 11 for a short contract.

1. Certificates are not typically required in the Java world of software development. Sure certified Java Programmer is helpful. Admittedly, some shops want a AWS Solution Architect certificate or the equivalent for Azure or Google Cloud.

2. When you interviewing the client, you will ask the question of them. You run a business, now, as a contractor. However, sometimes you don't have a choice: legacy versus bleeding edge, because contracting is like FEAST and FAMINE.

3. Exactly FEAST and FAMINE - if you are just representing yourself as a basic Java developer then there are ten-a-penny of them. You need Java + X. X is Kotlin for Android, X is AWS for cloud / Kubernetes, X is Reuters / Bloomberg Instruments for investment banking, X is Javascript/Typescript/Angular/React for full stack engineering. There is always X in addition to Java and sometimes Y and Z.

4. Becareful with Agile. What matters now is that people are considering "beyond Agile" especially in the toxicity of the teams, culture and empathy? You are a contractor, will you fit into their culture? Do you want to? Some consultants don't care and care only about invoicing [knowing that they tolerate just 3 months of insanity and then be gone]. The best contractors know when the client-co culture is so dumb and stupid, realise it, and then make immediate plans to find the next contract whilst in the current contract. IMHO prevention is much better than the cure. (I wish I had taken my own advice here, as an ex-contractor. There are some gigs that I should've, could've realised that I cut the contract on my own, but you make your own luck in life/work: experience and hindsight.)

5. No. You need to understand Off Payroll Worker Rules 2020 / 2021 and also the historical context of IR35. It is question for you and you better understand all of it.

6. Yes. Be prepared to walk away. Here you need decent networking skills with the agents and as well working well with colleagues and ex-colleagues. If, and if, you are kind in life and in work, good karma does usually comes your way. Give somebody that you respect, like a leg up when they are needy and the chances are that you get a referral yourself, eventually.

You have come to right place to ask about certain clients [Anderson, Avance Consulting, Infosys etc], you can also check glassdoor.com for toxicity and stories. Also check social media / reddit for / about bad management experiences: mental, bullying and presenteeism.

Good luck!

[jconway]

Based on my 2-year stint contracting in London...

1) Do they care for certificates if I have a limited hands-on experience with a technology - eg. privotal spring, aws developer, oracle java 11? Is experience in side projects more pragmatic? I'm guessing nobody will read code on github if I keep my side projects there?... Or will they?

They notice it on your CV, but experience is more valued. Side projects are OK but they have to be of a similar nature to what you'd be building on-the-job. To know what that is, it helps to have some on-the-job experience.

2) How likely is it to find jobs/gigs where you work on something from scratch or with a ready design? Or is it also mostly about maintaining old/bad code as in most of permanent roles?

I'd say it's about the same as perm. Also, not all maintenance/old code is bad; some code bases are well written (not the majority though). Also not all greenfield projects are as fun, as you might still be dealing with other difficulties, e.g. indecisive management.

3) In one of the other threads here I read that developers have no problem at all finding contracts nowadays - I don't remember the exact wording of that post but it a bit of as a witty exaggeration. Is it actually that easy if you have skills/experience?

Don't know about now but when I was working in London about 3-4 years ago there were plenty of contracts, but it all depended on the day rate. Higher day rate = fewer jobs. In my experience almost everything is negotiable based on the rate. Less experience = less £. You start as high as you can, then work your way up, based on what you did in your previous contract and how well you did it. Extra work on weekends/evenings to improve your skills and CV is also likely to improve your rate.

4) Do you alwasy work as a part of an agile team? Is it possible to find jobs where you deliver and communicate just to clarify requirements, or is more like freelancing?

Agile itself is a totally loose definition and subject to interpretation depending on the environment, team etc. I've seen teams alter the ceremonies and even standup regularity based on the situation.

It all depends on the overall business environment, nature of the work, who's on the team, how experienced they are, what stage of the lifecycle you're entering at, and other factors.

Generally communication is more frequent and intense in the early stages of a project and/or with less experienced or less specialised team members and/or in immature organisations. If you prefer less meetings, max out on two or more of these dimensions when looking for work.

6) Is it usually possible to walk away from a job? Is there such clause in the contract? Let's say if the job turned out to be a complete crap, toxic environment or other things.

You can do whatever you want. The next company hiring you doesn't necessarily care what happened at your last job. You're hired to help them achieve whatever their future goal is. If you keep quitting early you might miss out on opportunities to improve your skills, learn things, add things to your CV, etc.

I'd say 6 months is a reasonable average tenure. Any less and you start to look like a freelancer or like you're not easy to work with. Any more and you might risk not being "fresh" enough in your skills. Although I'd say it's good to aim for a few 1-2 year engagements, as you can learn a lot from sticking around on one project, and being extended is a good look.

Nothing is irrecoverable. The contracting market is fickle, but the flipside of that is that you can never permanently make yourself unhirable. As long as you're willing to be flexible and adaptable, you can always dust yourself off and try again and you'll probably get your next gig with enough persistence. Life is kinda like that (until you get too old to work, I guess).

[ladymuck]

I know you're focussed on how to get work and what it'll be like to do the work but you do also need to consider some other aspects.

Are you expecting to work inside or outside IR35? Do you know the difference?

Do you have enough money in the bank if your 6 month contract ends after 3 and you're out of work for a while?

Whilst we all belittle certifications, ongoing training or other enrichment is still necessary to stay sharp and relevant. Do you know what you need to keep abreast of in your chosen industry, beyond the actual job of coding?

What soft skills do you have? Can you chat to people, engage with them and sell yourself?

[northernladuk]

So you designed warships? Impressive if true.

Anyway my main point was that you don’t need to have any particular skills to go contracting, and the OP should have a go if he wants to.

Possibly the most ridiculous thing you've said to date.. and that's quite an achievement.

[hugebrain]

No, still makes no sense. And I was a senior service architect (which, incidentally, demands a far wider range of skills that any given programming specialist would ever need).. Anyone who's been paying attention over the last dozen years or so will have very little doubt as to my feelings about agents.

Still, keep on trying to make your point stick, it is providing some entertainment value if nothing else.

So you designed warships? Impressive if true.

Anyway my main point was that you don’t need to have any particular skills to go contracting, and the OP should have a go if he wants to.

[malvolio]

Try and keep up. He could go to duck duck go and search for “service management interview questions” and then take your next contract away from you.

Anyway, I thought you were a recruitment agent?

No, still makes no sense. And I was a senior service architect (which, incidentally, demands a far wider range of skills that any given programming specialist would ever need).. Anyone who's been paying attention over the last dozen years or so will have very little doubt as to my feelings about agents.

Still, keep on trying to make your point stick, it is providing some entertainment value if nothing else.

[hugebrain]

I recognise the words but the meaning rather escapes me, assuming there is one.



Exactly what competition does a java jockey offer to a pair of service management specialists?

Try and keep up. He could go to duck duck go and search for “service management interview questions” and then take your next contract away from you.

Anyway, I thought you were a recruitment agent?

[malvolio]

Of course contractors can do this. Just tell the client you have whatever specialist knowledge is in the job spec then go to duck duck go and search for whatever it is interview questions. It’s not like it’s hard. Best combined with a big smile and a firm handshake.

I recognise the words but the meaning rather escapes me, assuming there is one.

The second bit was merely pointing out that some of our less able contractors don’t like the competition so might try to steer newbies in another direction.

Exactly what competition does a java jockey offer to a pair of service management specialists?

[hugebrain]

In permie land yes because the asset is the person not the skills. Co's want good people they can invest in and will be a long term asset. In contracting they need specialist knowledge. If you mean contracting they you are talking tulip.

Absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean either.

Of course contractors can do this. Just tell the client you have whatever specialist knowledge is in the job spec then go to duck duck go and search for whatever it is interview questions. It’s not like it’s hard. Best combined with a big smile and a firm handshake.

The second bit was merely pointing out that some of our less able contractors don’t like the competition so might try to steer newbies in another direction.

[malvolio]

In permie land yes because the asset is the person not the skills. Co's want good people they can invest in and will be a long term asset. In contracting they need specialist knowledge. If you mean contracting they you are talking tulip.

Absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean either.

It means "I have no idea what I'm talking about but I fancy an argument". Best ignored, both as advice or commentary.

[Paralytic]

Do you think you could elaborate a bit on the 'reasonable standard' part?

One example: in my distant pass when I recruited a team, we asked candidates for any open source projects they had contributed towards. If they didn't have an automated unit test suite aligned to the codebase (with a decent level of coverage), the CV was filed in the bin. I'm not saying all clients would be like that, but that was a red flag for me, so you've got to look at your code with outside eyes and honestly ask yourself what it says about you (professionally). What is reasonable may differ by client.

[northernladuk]

Lots of people start with no experience at all and just read a book on whatever programming language it is on the tube on the way into work.

In permie land yes because the asset is the person not the skills. Co's want good people they can invest in and will be a long term asset. In contracting they need specialist knowledge. If you mean contracting they you are talking tulip.

The advice you are getting is Dilbert-style you should consider dry cleaning instead (competition keeps the price of getting our shirts ironed low AND keeps our contracting rates up).

So, I’ll go with that. Try dry cleaning instead.

Absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean either.