Reply to: Asked to lead team - should I request a bump?

[northernladuk]

Well no, it probably won't. Technical team leaders get stuff delivered, usually on time. They don't usually have a direct impact on cost, efficiency and/or quality, which are equally important measures and for that you need a manager with a degree of financial control. Hiring managers aren't interested in roles, only in quantifiable successes. so to gain any real benefit from this extra work, you would have to do a lot more than organise the workload.

Not saying you won't but it has to be a conscious career step imho.

And I'd generally agree but it's something the OP should think about. Benefits don't always come in the form of a rate rise for us and 'could' be an opportunity in some form, even for long term future as WTFH says, so part of the decision process. I don't know enough about the OPs role to make a decision was just putting the thought to them to do as they wish.

[WTFH]

Will this look better on your CV in your role? Will leading at team of X people make you look better than just being a dooer. You'll get your raise in future gigs with that experience under your belt.

Also, if the team working under you are all contractors and you get good ones (or you bring in contractors you already know who are good), then by treating them well in this contract, you now have other contacts who will consider you if the opportunity arises.

About 20 years ago I go into a site where they were using one of the big 4 for all their resources in a major project. The project was going way over budget and the consultancy didn't have a resource with the right knowledge/experience in one area so the client went out to market and I got the role. It was a 3 month contract. Within a couple of weeks it was clear to the client that I was doing a better job than a few of the consultancy, so I was given more work. I asked for more resources and by the end of month 1 had two others working with me. By the end of month 2 I was managing a team of 5 contractors. The gig lasted 9 months.
As a result of that I got recommendations and interviews for other roles from members of that team.

[malvolio]

More like cloud cuckoo land

To hit the target, either aim high and accept a drop, or aim at random and whatever you hit, call that the target.

Will this look better on your CV in your role? Will leading at team of X people make you look better than just being a dooer. You'll get your raise in future gigs with that experience under your belt.

Well no, it probably won't. Technical team leaders get stuff delivered, usually on time. They don't usually have a direct impact on cost, efficiency and/or quality, which are equally important measures and for that you need a manager with a degree of financial control. Hiring managers aren't interested in roles, only in quantifiable successes. so to gain any real benefit from this extra work, you would have to do a lot more than organise the workload.

Not saying you won't but it has to be a conscious career step imho.

[northernladuk]

Certainly 15% seems fanciful

More like cloud cuckoo land

Will this look better on your CV in your role? Will leading at team of X people make you look better than just being a dooer. You'll get your raise in future gigs with that experience under your belt.

[DrStrange]

No it doesn't and I think its permie thinking to expect a raise for a change like this.

He's going to be a team lead, not a people manager. The OP won't be doing all the full managerial stuff a perm might when managing staff. Team lead/people manager are different things.

I agree with everyone else that the OP just has to say no if they don't want to do it, particularly if he's outside IR35, but does he command a rate rise for this then I'd say I doubt it. You can be narked and the initial thought would be more money but if you think about it it shouldn't be.

Thanks, this seems a fair summary.

The role is inside unfortunately and "doing" is considerably easier than "organising" as the place is a mess. Half of me thinks I could help tidy up but then I've think I'm paid for my time these days and not my deliverables so why not sit back?

I guess my question has been answered that the company is right to say the work is valued the same, so it's a just a preference on which I prefer.

Certainly 15% seems fanciful

[northernladuk]

Agreed that leading a group of people is harder and your level of responsibility will increase

No it doesn't and I think its permie thinking to expect a raise for a change like this. It's different responsibilities at a professional level you are already being paid at. Different skills/responsible but not skills that demand an increase in rate. You say harder and more responsibility? I'd say coding key systems is much harder with more responsibility than managing a teams workloads. Either way you are being paid 400+ quid a day for your level of skill and professionalism. That hasn't change moving in to a team lead role. If it was perm you'd get 2k a year tops for it if that. A rate range of 400-600 covers nearly every IT role there is and we don't argue which is harder or has more responsibility so a small move in a team shouldn't make a difference.

He's going to be a team lead, not a people manager. The OP won't be doing all the full managerial stuff a perm might when managing staff. Team lead/people manager are different things.

I agree with everyone else that the OP just has to say no if they don't want to do it, particularly if he's outside IR35, but does he command a rate rise for this then I'd say I doubt it. You can be narked and the initial thought would be more money but if you think about it it shouldn't be.

[jmo21]

Pretty cut and dried to me, I would also expect to be paid more, but they have been quite clear on their thoughts on the matter.

If they ask you formally again, I would reply by saying I wasn't interested in a team lead role, rather than saying I am not interested in this team lead role because you will not pay more.

[Lance]

Agreed that leading a group of people is harder

or it might be easier

I will be a technical lead quite often, without an uplift, but I do sell myself as a tech lead/architect. So if asked I say "sure". It has always resulted in me getting more projects as I have been able to demonstrate more than just a narrow set of technical skills.
It also allows me to work on areas that I don't have the direct skills for as a tech lead doesn't need to know how to do all the components.

[Lance]

I don't see "see ya later" as leaving the contract (although it's probably a sane option). It's just a different way of saying not interested, it's not for me.

you might be right. It might not be intended to communicate a desire to terminate the contract.
But 'see ya later' is not helpful for the OP nor is it professional to say to the client, no matter that the intention is.

[TheDude]

Don't accept unless they pay you more as team leading adds a lot of complications you could certainly do without.

Indeed - you will be appraised on the performance of others.

[eek]

That's just stupid.
Telling them 'see ya later' is ending the gig without any good reason.

Of the 2 options I suggested, you have managed to come up with a 3rd really dumb one.

I don't see "see ya later" as leaving the contract (although it's probably a sane option). It's just a different way of saying not interested, it's not for me.

[IsayIsayIsay]

Agreed that leading a group of people is harder and your level of responsibility will increase (not only for them, but from your seniors as you will be the conduit into any issues across that team and the work they are delivering).

I'd approach it like this:

1) Do I want to do it (y/n) - of course this depends on a combination of the other points (what's my gut saying)
2) Will they pay me for it
3) Do I like where I am (does it fit with me in non-financial terms too)
4) Do I have anything else lined up
5) Is this an experience that will elevate future earnings

Once I understood all of those I'd feel in a position to make a decision.

[zonkkk]

More responsibility, more money. Tell them you are willing to discuss taking on the role at renewal time for appropriate compensation.

If you have a good relationship with the hiring manager they won't say no. Ask for more than what you're willing to accept as they will try to get the asking rate down.

I have done this on a previous contract and got a 12% raise. I asked for 15%.

Don't accept unless they pay you more as team leading adds a lot of complications you could certainly do without.

[Lance]

Eh no. The question is are you willing to risk the gig to ask for more. Personally I would tell them see ya later. They are just trying it on

That's just stupid.
Telling them 'see ya later' is ending the gig without any good reason.

Of the 2 options I suggested, you have managed to come up with a 3rd really dumb one.

[cannon999]

they've already told you they won't pay more.
So your question should be whether you want to do it or not surely?

Eh no. The question is are you willing to risk the gig to ask for more. Personally I would tell them see ya later. They are just trying it on