Reply to: Bit surprised....contractors being told to take time off for 'wellness'

[SussexSeagull]

Going back to the original post - if anyone can remember back that far - if the client described it as having to have a week off then it would be a lot more straightforward, although having to have it at a time of year most people are trying to keep their heads down at work after Christmas is never going to be that popular.

As for providing your own equipment I work in Software Testing and there isn't a way in the world I would install pre-release software on my own device.

[cojak]

Particularly if you can accept another role that doesn’t take the piss.

[NotAllThere]

Well I mean that's just silly. Inside/Outside there's no difference to most people except for the small subset of geeks on here.

If geeks is defined as "people who run their own ltd company", then yes. Of course, the massive difference is the amount of NI you are forced to pay, the ability to income shift to your lovely spouse (whoever he may be), and income smoothing to cover lean years.

You're right that if it's a question between being unemployed and providing your own laptop, it's a bit silly not to take the role, buton the other hand also silly to not understand that such a request for an inside IR35 contract is taking the piss somewhat. On the gripping hand... ope, that's it.

[ensignia]

Hey?

He's explaining to you in simple terms why myself and others won't pay for a laptop if we are within IR35.

And I'm explaining why it's stupid. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, to prove a point to the oddities on here or make some sort of small protest about the Government legislation.

Like any of you would turn down an Inside role paying 25% more than the equivalent Outside one just because you had to buy a laptop. Because obviously the computing power you already have access to is completely insufficient for writing some code and accessing GitHub

[northernladuk]

Classic flailing from NLUK. Next you'll be requesting this to be moved to General.

Why on earth are you having a pop at me? I tried to help you by explaining the context of everyone's comments, nothing more. I didn't say I wanted a laptop and I'm not arguing the toss. Just pointing out why people inside would like a laptop from the client. All I added is that I think this is totally reasonable. I've not worked at a client that says own kit and IMO I'm always happy to take customer kit whatever my status is. Matters not to me.

I'm most certainly a good candidate for a good fail but in this case it's not me.

[WTFH]

Hey?

He's explaining to you in simple terms why myself and others won't pay for a laptop if we are within IR35.

Yup.
Inside IR35 = Temporary employee = Employer (or "client" as some permitractors call them) supplies laptop and any other tools required by them to do the job.
Outside IR35, I use a mixture of Ltd equipment (where possible) and client equipment (where necessary). My company will not permit clients to install "unauthorised" software on our company equipment, and most of my clients have specific security protocols to access parts of their systems.

[SueEllen]

Classic flailing from NLUK. Next you'll be requesting this to be moved to General.

Hey?

He's explaining to you in simple terms why myself and others won't pay for a laptop if we are within IR35.

[ensignia]

Classic flailing from NLUK. Next you'll be requesting this to be moved to General.

[northernladuk]

Why would you need to buy a laptop especially? Also, laptops/PCs/Macs are hardly a huge cost to bear for people who are on healthy day rates (regardless of whether you can bill it through your Co or not).

Who cares. I'm not arguing it with you. I pointed out why people were saying they'd demand a laptop and it's not unreasonable. Asking why people need laptops is getting silly and off topic so whatever.

[Lance]

Why would you need to buy a laptop especially? Also, laptops/PCs/Macs are hardly a huge cost to bear for people who are on healthy day rates (regardless of whether you can bill it through your Co or not).

My business devices are highly specced and run full MS 365 suite of business and security tools. I pay MS over £500 a year (Action pack plus bolt-on licenses).
If I were inside IR35 long term, I would be MVLing my business and no longer pay for those products.

If a client want me to use my own device, without the advanced security tooling my business pay for, they are fecking idiots. It's more than just inside/outside. It's about who's responsible for securing the systems and information. As a business owner I have responsibility. As an employee I would have none.

[ensignia]

If you are inside and need to buy a laptop you can't put it through expenses so not unreasonable to ask the client for kit.

Why would you need to buy a laptop especially? Also, laptops/PCs/Macs are hardly a huge cost to bear for people who are on healthy day rates (regardless of whether you can bill it through your Co or not).

[d000hg]

Tell them that you take your wellness breaks on tropical beaches between contracts rather than in cold and wet UK Januarys and Februarys.

A cold and wet JAnuary is the perfect time to go find those tropical beaches.

[northernladuk]

Well I mean that's just silly. Inside/Outside there's no difference to most people except for the small subset of geeks on here.

Nothing has really changed except the way many contractors are paid now, clients/hiring managers don't suddenly think these contractors are now disguised perms because of regs so we should change how we treat them.

Technically correct but it's kind of a 'not fair' factor. If you want to put me inside and put me through a brolly then you can go whistle if you think I am going to use my own kit. That's the way the posts went up to the point you jumped in. If you are inside and need to buy a laptop you can't put it through expenses so not unreasonable to ask the client for kit.

[ensignia]

The context is that it's an inside gig. If they want a disguised perm then they can stump up the hardware.

Well I mean that's just silly. Inside/Outside there's no difference to most people except for the small subset of geeks on here.

Nothing has really changed except the way many contractors are paid now, clients/hiring managers don't suddenly think these contractors are now disguised perms because of regs so we should change how we treat them.

[northernladuk]

Why are people taking umbrage to having to use their own equipment?

I got sent a laptop for my new gig and I hate it, but am forced to use it because ClientCo (Big 4) stipulate that I have to and there seems to be no way around it unlike other massive corporates I've contracted at.

The context is that it's an inside gig. If they want a disguised perm then they can stump up the hardware.