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Previously on "Contract Inside IR35 = Anything Goes?"

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  • d000hg
    replied
    I wouldn't want the first thing the client hears is "this is impossible, I quit". You'd surely want to make them aware, firmly, what you've been asked to do and why this is not sustainable. "You've asked me to cover 3 people at once". It might be part of your 'job' is pushing back on that instead of simply working yourself sick... telling them you cannot possibly do 3 peoples' work, demanding they give you some prioritisation or authority to do it.

    You might say "it's not possible, I WILL quit unless it's resolved" - getting serious is sometimes the push they need to respond. It doesn't sound liek you have too much to lose so you might as well try. I'd think it makes you more professional to have told them flatly the issues and that you aren't prepared to continue this way, before quitting (which does sound the likely outcome).

    Leaving as has been said, is sometimes the best thing to do. Don't force yourself because it seems like failing if you quit, do what is best. Medical complications seem to make that fairly cut'n'dried from what you've said.

    Good luck!

    Leave a comment:


  • NowPermOutsideUK
    replied
    You should be proud you decided to quit. I went through something similar recently and it took me 8 months to actually resign. It broke me and I regret not quitting sooner bu my that’s the past

    my advice is protect your health. Work should be fun consistent and organised. Not Wild West

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  • Lost It
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy Win View Post
    My intention is to leave though, not stay. By just having a couple of weeks off, I would still then have to go back to work and work a month's notice? This is what I want to avoid
    No you don't. If you are in any job, if someone offers you work that is better for you there's nothing legally stopping you from just handing in your notice and taking the new job. Certainly under IR35 they might try to pressure you, but you have a month or more of fit note, use that as your notice.

    I had a major operation last year, bowel cancer, my GP and the oncology team didn't want me to go back to work because they said "stress was the worst thing for my recovery" but I went anyway knowing that if I can't handle the job I can get signed off for 6 months if I need it. They also say I have PTSDS too because of something I said when I was in my bed in hopsital.

    If you've been in a similar position, all you have to explain to your GP is that you fear your health is at risk. Then you get what ever fit note you want. They don't wish to see you back in hospital. They want your recovery to be a success.

    And you DO NOT need to be "signed off" a fit note. It's up to you to either stay off work or go back when you are suitably recovered. I wouldn't bother with a 28 day one, ask for 3 months. The company will let you go anyway if they have any sense. Technically you could go after them if they let you go because of a disability but if it serves the purpose you want then it's win win.
    Ideally they "let you go", you have a miraculous recovery and start back at work somewhere else.

    But please, if you are dreading going to work, get that fit note sorted. Life is way too short to be in that frame of mind.

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  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy Win View Post

    I'm assuming the worst that can happen is that the umbrella company does not pay me for the weeks I have worked and the agency sues me for breach of contract. How likely is this to happen and has anyone been the subject of legal action? That could cause even greater problems.
    The agency won't sue you. They have only lost their commission for a month. It's just not worth it for them. They will try and hold the money back from the umbrella but that's illegal as you've worked it. It's a bit different to what we've seen in the past as an umbrella is in the way and it should be them chasing the money but I've a feeling they won't care much depending on whether they are obliged to pay you. If the contract says they do not have to pay you until they get the money then I don't think they'll do much about it.

    You may have to chase the agency. Google 'Dunning' and just do that and then threaten them with further action. They are experts in this game so unlikely to pay you unless they really feel you are going to follow it up. A solicitors letter will likely do the trick. That said, in many cases like this the contractor has had to suck it up and lose the last pay, you did breach contract after all. Depends on how much you need the money.

    But don't worry about legal action. They'll bluff and bluster and be pretty upset but just ignore it and don't let it get you down any further. It won't come to anything.

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  • BlasterBates
    replied
    I wouldn't hand in a sick note. I personally would recommend to simply stop "caring" and work methodically. If you're really desperate then hand in your notice. But remember this is a big client.

    In my experience working under stress is "normal" and sure it only happens in a minority of contracts or permanent jobs but is something you'll repeatedly face from time to time, particularly in the new "agile" age.

    The pressure is purely psychological, no-one is expecting superhuman feats of doing the jobs of 3 permies at the same time. They just need someone to sort out issues and answer e-mails. At 17:00 you can down tools and answer the e-mails in the morning. If someone shouts at you respond professionally, and distance yourself from the melee.

    If you rise above it then you'll be able to command high rates in the banking world.
    Last edited by BlasterBates; 12 September 2021, 11:31.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Well the umbrella is your employer and needs to pay you for those weeks - that's the rules but they may get away with only paying you minimum wage if the agency doesn't pay them.

    And the agency can only sue the umbrella for payment which won't get very far

    Equally it's been a week what did you do last Monday?

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy Win
    replied
    Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
    Anti slavery laws prevent you being forced to work. What's the worst that happen if you simply email the agency and say life's too short for this rubbish, and you're terminating the contract with immediate effect?
    I'm assuming the worst that can happen is that the umbrella company does not pay me for the weeks I have worked and the agency sues me for breach of contract. How likely is this to happen and has anyone been the subject of legal action? That could cause even greater problems.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    If he is ill then don't hesitate to see a Doctor and if necessary remove themselves from the environment that is causing problems but from what I have read here they don't come across as the sort of organisation who are going to take too much notice of a sick not for a contractor.

    Serve notice. If you can't go in for medical reasons then don't but don't let the cart pull the horse.

    Leave a comment:


  • agentzero
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post
    Not sure how getting a sick note came into everyone's thinking.

    Hand in your notice then work the bear minimum on the grounds they worst they go do is get rid of you.
    Agree.

    The best route is to cease caring and give your month notice, explaining the chaotic nature of the project. If you are direct then people respect you. Over the next 4 weeks, put in your expected hours and don't care what anybody else thinks.

    Do the role you were hired for and state that's all you will be doing. Don't feel guilty, as you have nothing to feel guilty about.

    Going down the other lines suggested sounds like a hassle. You are giving the required notice and will be doing the least amount of work possible, while also looking for other work and ensuring you are as professional and polite as possible.

    Sounds like RBS/Natwest Group, which are one and the same really.

    If you have the type of personality who avoids conflict, feels undue guilt easily and are at your wits end then by all means go down the doctor route. Look after yourself first and foremost.

    For what it's worth, I've not worked inside IR35 but regularly refuse to do work and explain why: contracted role/project. Doesn't appear to have done me any harm. I wouldn't work at RBS Natwest again for this reason unless I was at the begging bowl in terms of cashflow.
    Last edited by agentzero; 6 September 2021, 11:22.

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  • NotAllThere
    replied
    Originally posted by eek View Post

    Because we've read all the OP's posts and clearly you haven't

    The sick note is to avoid painful discussions the OP doesn't want and to allow him to escape the contract.
    And because he may well be clinically sick so that going into work will make him sicker.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by SussexSeagull View Post
    Not sure how getting a sick note came into everyone's thinking.

    Hand in your notice then work the bear minimum on the grounds they worst they go do is get rid of you.
    Because we've read all the OP's posts and clearly you haven't

    The sick note is to avoid painful discussions the OP doesn't want and to allow him to escape the contract.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Not sure how getting a sick note came into everyone's thinking.

    Hand in your notice then work the bear minimum on the grounds they worst they go do is get rid of you.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by Willy Win View Post

    Would the sick note go to agency, hiring manager or both? My concern is also that I may not get 28 days as that is a long time.
    Again you are stressing about this too much. Even if it’s 14 days you can get a second one but the reality is given your current state 28 days is plausible especially when it’s tied to ensuring you don’t need to return to that client as you be resigned

    Leave a comment:


  • Willy Win
    replied
    Originally posted by ladymuck View Post
    Once you've got your 28 day sick note, there's a chance the client may bin you off but you could also serve notice a day or two after you get it.
    Would the sick note go to agency, hiring manager or both? My concern is also that I may not get 28 days as that is a long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Option 1 and don’t stress about the sick note of you got a new contract, they don’t need to know about it

    Leave a comment:

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