Reply to: State of the Market

[northernladuk]

Ageism is a thing!!! I’m in a role but they have brought a perm person in, 20 years younger …not experienced but they seem to want younger people not folks in their 50s with experience! I’m sticking it out but am not enjoying it …once they permie gets their feet under the table they won’t need me…it’s grim! Feel am on the scrap heap…I tried to get perm roles but got nowhere fast even though the roles were well within my capabilities…feel at a loss. Half tempted to down size now and opt out the corporate world…it’s getting increasingly tough

Bearing in mind you posted this twice maybe it's because us 50 year olds are getting a bit doddery and forgetful

[Cookielove]

Ageism is a thing!!! I’m in a role but they have brought a perm person in, 20 years younger …not experienced but they seem to want younger people not folks in their 50s with experience! I’m sticking it out but am not enjoying it …once they permie gets their feet under the table they won’t need me…it’s grim! Feel am on the scrap heap…I tried to get perm roles but got nowhere fast even though the roles were well within my capabilities…feel at a loss. Half tempted to down size now and opt out the corporate world…it’s getting increasingly tough

[Cookielove]

Ageism is a thing!!! I’m in a role but they have brought a perm person in, 20 years younger …not experienced but they seem to want younger people not folks in their 50s with experience! I’m sticking it out but am not enjoying it …once they permie gets their feet under the table they won’t need me…it’s grim! Feel am on the scrap heap…I tried to get perm roles but got nowhere fast even though the roles were well within my capabilities…feel at a loss. Half tempted to down size now and opt out the corporate world…it’s getting increasingly tough

[fiisch]

What makes you think it's a no?

In interviews when I get asked if I have any questions, one of the ones I normally ask the interviewers is along the lines of:
"Have you any concerns/reasons why you would NOT give me this role?"

I was once told to ask the same by an agency - I think this depends on the interviewer. It's a great technique to front-up objections in the interview, and gives you an opportunity to lay to rest any doubts in the interviewer's mind.

However, it can also come across as pushy, and a bit dominant. Depending on how "alpha" interviewer is and how the interview has gone, I might drop this one in but equally I think it can put some people off. I was once the second interviewer when a candidate asked this, and it become a bit tense as the candidate argued against the other interviewer's objections and basically told him his opinion was wrong. She was not offered the job.

Another option is to front-up obvious concerns on your CV as part of your answers e.g.: as a long-time contractor, talk about your motivations for a "long-term role" and to "develop within a particular role" etc.

In my opinion, current slump is linked to certain industries - I am not seeing a drop off in roles in London for insurance change (appreciate that can have a high barrier to entry experience-wise), and there seems to be plenty of current open contract roles in my nearby town which is not renowned for IT change roles. Think it's a mixed bag out there at the moment depending on where your specialisms lie, but it's certainly not (yet) recessional.

[ensignia]

I know one big company is discriminating against white males, they never say that, but even coming top in their recruitment process is unlikely to lead to an offer.

Oh, when will the downtrodden white male finally get a break?!

[CoolCat]

I know one big company is discriminating against white males, they never say that, but even coming top in their recruitment process is unlikely to lead to an offer.

[tsmith]

It really isn't so easy when you have been contracting for such a long time. I have been contracting 27 years. Been applying for permie roles since 2020. Barely had an interview, lost count of how many roles I have applied for. Did have a second interview last week for a role that is ideal. Interviewed really well but think it's a no again.

Go perm after that long contract is going to be a huge challenge. It is for me with 10 years.

Interviewing for perm is very different to interviewing contract roles.

One thing that usually gets me is the perm normie/NPC interviewers always says: 'have you got experience with [insert X blatantly obvious thing you will have done 100 times]?'

And then you dont agree that approach is optimal and you prefer Y different approach. Never do that. Its always YES then go on to explain only positive experiences with X

Also Ageism is real. An interesting experiment. Go to the team photos on https://cord.co

Try and find a receding hairline on any of the guys in the photos. Or anyone that looks over 40. A wheres wally exercise

Its literally all photos that look like recent grads with maybe a couple of 30 somethings.

[unixman]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

If it is the case, perhaps point to your previous permanent roles on your CV, which shows you stayed with companies for an appreciable length of time.

[WTFH]

It really isn't so easy when you have been contracting for such a long time. I have been contracting 27 years. Been applying for permie roles since 2020. Barely had an interview, lost count of how many roles I have applied for. Did have a second interview last week for a role that is ideal. Interviewed really well but think it's a no again.

What makes you think it's a no?

In interviews when I get asked if I have any questions, one of the ones I normally ask the interviewers is along the lines of:
"Have you any concerns/reasons why you would NOT give me this role?"

It puts them on the spot and will normally get fairly honest responses from them that will focus on your experience (e.g. in their industry/type of business/etc), or for a permanent role they will be asking "what makes us believe that you won't jump ship as soon as you get your first contract offer?" Think about questions like that and how you can answer/reassure them. Talk about how you have worked on long projects and are driven by getting things delivered, talk about looking for stability/security/how you're tired of living out of a suitcase, whatever.

[avonleigh]

It really isn't so easy when you have been contracting for such a long time. I have been contracting 27 years. Been applying for permie roles since 2020. Barely had an interview, lost count of how many roles I have applied for. Did have a second interview last week for a role that is ideal. Interviewed really well but think it's a no again.

[Fraidycat]

I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

I would say don't go for junior roles. Waste of time unless the wolf is at the door. At a minimum look for mid level roles. In the 40K to 65K range. Here they are looking for experienced people but struggle to find anyone because the pay is low. There seems to be no shortage of such roles.

[Bluenose]

Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Might as well take a permie role for 24 months and come back here.

[dsc]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Just say you've had enough of contracting instability and want a nice, steady position. Seems to work for me.

As for going for any role, you probably need to dumb down your cv for entry roles, as I doubt a lot of companies would take on someone way overqualified. If you are in a dire financial situation then any job will be better than no job. Best of luck!

[escapeUK]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Can't you just say, at this stage in your career you would like the stability of a perm role? Holiday pay, sickness pay, pension, just list a few of the things that the interviewer will no doubt see as benefits they too enjoy. What you must not come over is as a contractor who just wants to take a perm role to make ends meet for 6 months, even if that is the case!

[umeshk]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?