IR35 PS - So anyone had the discussion yet?

[notahappybunny]

Further chats with the PSB today - this time from the very top, which was nice.

Their approach is that they need to try again to recruit permanent people and some adverts are done and more to come. In the meantime they want to keep the best contractors working for them on critical projects.

I have already told them I am leaving end of March, and this has triggered various options being chewed over by them. Basically:

1.stay with them in a re-thought role still outside IR35 at their risk
2. with them in a similar role now inside IR35, but with rates lifted 30% to compensate
3.move to a different PSB that does stuff with them too, still doing some stuff for them - again in a re-thought role still outside IR35
4.move to a different PSB that does stuff with them too, still doing some stuff for them - in a similar role now inside IR35, but with rates lifted 30% to compensate

All of the above options are +\- the current agency I'm with, and with me being asked to almost write my own re-thought JD (I would need to see a good example). They will also not respond to the agency pushing for a determination before end of March as not relevant.

I think 1 and 2 are a no - and 3 or 4 could work. I am still nervous of all 4 re retro though so still seeking advice. The other option is to turn all 4 down and just walk

Very similar situation myself NHS........walk will almost certainly be my final decision......exploring several private roles already......PSB's loss in the end and not sure if it realises what's coming.

[psychocandy]

Well todays exchange with agency just about summed up the stupidity of some organisations.....

Agency is actually a division of the consultancy I contract with so you'd have thought there'd be some communication. Anyway, last week, I finally got through to client manager who offered me a one month deal for March. Idea being I would sort out reduced payment terms to ensure I got paid by April and then hopefully the whole sorry mess might get sorted.

Agency come back "we can't be seen to be amending payments terms to allow you to avoid tax and NI". Aaarggghh. It defies belief sometimes. Not quite sure if they've worked out yet that SOMEONE will be liable for employers NI if it all goes belly up.

[MrMarkyMark]

Well todays exchange with agency just about summed up the stupidity of some organisations.....

Agency is actually a division of the consultancy I contract with so you'd have thought there'd be some communication. Anyway, last week, I finally got through to client manager who offered me a one month deal for March. Idea being I would sort out reduced payment terms to ensure I got paid by April and then hopefully the whole sorry mess might get sorted.

Agency come back "we can't be seen to be amending payments terms to allow you to avoid tax and NI". Aaarggghh. It defies belief sometimes. Not quite sure if they've worked out yet that SOMEONE will be liable for employers NI if it all goes belly up.

Without getting into anything, the direction you seem to be going with this seems less than "peachy".

Just sayin' like

[northernladuk]

He's only got 2 weeks left so he should have handed his rota and adhoc tasks over and be eyeing the door by now.

[maxm]

@psychocandy sounds a lot like a conversation I had with my agency. Those exact words.

[sal]

Very similar situation myself NHS........walk will almost certainly be my final decision......exploring several private roles already......PSB's loss in the end and not sure if it realises what's coming.

If you have the 4 options - stay outside IR35 or inside with 30% rate bump, move to another PSB and stay outside IR35 or inside with 30% rate bump, they obviously realise what's coming and want to keep you, what more do you want?

[psychocandy]

@psychocandy sounds a lot like a conversation I had with my agency. Those exact words.

It defies belief how clueless they are.

I pointed out that if this all went belly up then, as the contract stands, they'd be liable for employer NI. I dont think they even realised this.

I can see a lot of agencies going bust over this. When they realise they've now got to pay 12% employer NI out of their cut - which could be less than 12%

[eek]

It defies belief how clueless they are.

I pointed out that if this all went belly up then, as the contract stands, they'd be liable for employer NI. I dont think they even realised this.

I can see a lot of agencies going bust over this. When they realise they've now got to pay 12% employer NI out of their cut - which could be less than 12%

Employers NI is 13.8% . As for the other bit it depends on the t&Cs within their contract - a fair few already seem to have the ability to withhold tax if required to do so...

[psychocandy]

Employers NI is 13.8% . As for the other bit it depends on the t&Cs within their contract - a fair few already seem to have the ability to withhold tax if required to do so...

Ah. Remember it used to be 12.2% or something....

Already checked my contract :-)

[perplexed]

Agency ignorance will be a major factor - I've no doubt many care not a single bit, want their cut. Anything else is just an issue that can be dealt with as and when.

Seen a data migration role which I know is for a university - nowhere does the role ad specify it's public sector as a consequence as universities are subject to FoI requests.

Maybe that omission was deliberate, maybe agent didn't have a scooby doo. Regardless of how the PS status was omitted, people will apply and people will get caught out by it.

Combine agency ignorance with contractor ignorance / apathy and it's a dangerous combination.