Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[pscont]

When is the new HMRC assessment service coming live?
Any ideas, roughly?

[eek]

This hysterical nonsense about thousands of back dated IR35 investigations is just simple utter nonsense. HMRC have had all the data they need in their databases to very accurately pinpoint all the low hanging IR35 fruit by running a few Janet and John grade SQL queries for many, many years. It hasn't happened yet and it won't happen after April 6th either.

Remember, this is a gov't dept we're talking about here. They struggle to even function from day to day without melting down. How on earth can you possibly see the end of the world arriving on April 6th 2017? Seriously, things are bad enough without exaggerating it a million fold.

Exactly how close are you to the data reporting teams within HMRC especially those that resigned in mid January following request for particular reports to be prepared and written?

Yep it may be inaccurate and it may be paranoia but there are a lot of people in Longbenton who heard something and rapidly changed their plans for the next few months to feature a bit (or lot) of bench time....

[LondonManc]

This hysterical nonsense about thousands of back dated IR35 investigations is just simple utter nonsense. HMRC have had all the data they need in their databases to very accurately pinpoint all the low hanging IR35 fruit by running a few Janet and John grade SQL queries for many, many years. It hasn't happened yet and it won't happen after April 6th either.

Remember, this is a gov't dept we're talking about here. They struggle to even function from day to day without melting down. How on earth can you possibly see the end of the world arriving on April 6th 2017? Seriously, things are bad enough without exaggerating it a million fold.

Breaking news. UK plc is skint. This is a debt recovery exercise as far as they are concerned.

Having worked in a debt recovery business, I know that they weigh up the cost versus the actual chance of recovery; in this case, if you were a BA through Venn Group in February and outside and in April are a BA through Venn Group and now inside, the only expense you'll be able to claim if for Vaseline, don't worry about that. This is exactly why eek has said change departments and agencies. They've a high chance, low cost investigation and plenty of cases to go at. They'll match on NI number, agency and job role and have a massive list to go at. Of those, any that don't have QDOS, IPSE, etc's IR35 insurance will be the lowest hanging fruit. Those with IR35 insurance, they'll probably leave alone, given the actuarial value of the case. The head-in-sand, bum-on-seaters will not be able to put their bums on seats, no doubt in my mind.

I can't see anyone not properly acting as a business getting away with it; if you transition from outside to inside and are a permietractor, brace yourself.

[Graham1967]

This hysterical nonsense about thousands of back dated IR35 investigations is just simple utter nonsense. HMRC have had all the data they need in their databases to very accurately pinpoint all the low hanging IR35 fruit by running a few Janet and John grade SQL queries for many, many years. It hasn't happened yet and it won't happen after April 6th either.

Remember, this is a gov't dept we're talking about here. They struggle to even function from day to day without melting down. How on earth can you possibly see the end of the world arriving on April 6th 2017? Seriously, things are bad enough without exaggerating it a million fold.

Incorrect. Hector now has people who admit they are working inside IR35. They no longer need to prove the point retrospectively.

Secondly HMRC know two things, many contractors do not understand IR35 or for that matter how to run a LTDco. Just based on my own experience HMRC could run rings around them.

They also play on the fear factor. Keep dropping them brown envelopes on people door mats and many will bend. I've had two employees that Hector was looking at. The stress it caused them one guy used to dread going home. He relented in the end and payed them off with a credit card. Few weeks later they were back again, looking at another employment when he was alluding to be self employed.

You don't want to be helping Hector get his ducks in a row. Staying in the same role after April will do exactly this.

After all turkeys don't vote for xmas.

[Semtex]

Incorrect. Hector now has people who admit they are working inside IR35. They no longer need to prove the point retrospectively.

Secondly HMRC know two things, many contractors do not understand IR35 or for that matter how to run a LTDco. Just based on my own experience HMRC could run rings around them.

They also play on the fear factor. Keep dropping them brown envelopes on people door mats and many will bend. I've had two employees that Hector was looking at. The stress it caused them one guy used to dread going home. He relented in the end and payed them off with a credit card. Few weeks later they were back again, looking at another employment when he was alluding to be self employed.

You don't want to be helping Hector get his ducks in a row. Staying in the same role after April will do exactly this.

After all turkeys don't vote for xmas.

unless your role is still deemed outside

[perplexed]

unless your role is still deemed outside

Will that really matter to Hector?

Knowing public sector has X, Y and Z as contractors, with status either Inside or Outside isn't really relevant, still paints a massive target on the back for further investigation.

If public sector orgs as I suspect will fudge Outside status to retain key contractors, if the actual working practices don't match those claimed by the public sector org for the tool...

[pjt]

Will that really matter to Hector?

Knowing public sector has X, Y and Z as contractors, with status either Inside or Outside isn't really relevant, still paints a massive target on the back for further investigation.

If public sector orgs as I suspect will fudge Outside status to retain key contractors, if the actual working practices don't match those claimed by the public sector org for the tool...

But if a PS body claims someone is outside who isn't the liability for any additional tax will fall on them not the contractor so best case for the contractor surely.

[eek]

But if a PS body claims someone is outside who isn't the liability for any additional tax will fall on them not the contractor so best case for the contractor surely.

Not quite it fall on the agency and only falls on the public sector if they fail to make a determination or the agency proves the PS body lied..

[pjt]

Not quite it fall on the agency and only falls on the public sector if they fail to make a determination or the agency proves the PS body lied..

Either way the contractor is not liable.

[malvolio]

Either way the contractor is not liable.

...but possibly out of a role and probably facing a bill for back taxes and expenses wrongly claimed. Just because the agency has passed the money on for YourCo to manage doesn't mean you get to keep it.