Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[northernladuk]

The big consultancies are charging out independent contractors at over double the rate they pay them at the place I am engaged. You'd think that margin would have to give.

I've been approached about work in Telford and Newcastle but told the agencies that it's not viable any more given we can't charge expenses and will likely taxed at source from April 2017.

Indeed but they are a different model to us being engaged via an agent so not really a like for like comparison. Still outrageous though.

[youngguy]

Indeed but they are a different model to us being engaged via an agent so not really a like for like comparison. Still outrageous though.

How does that model work? Does the contractor get a day rate as an associate and get paid in a similar way, then they are badged as consultancy y who charge them at the standard consultancy rates?

I've never done it myself so have no knowledge .

[northernladuk]

In theory they offer a managed service rather bum on seats. They own a whole piece of work and delivery of it so the client doesn't have to. A managed service. They add more value than just a bum on seat. The reality is they take on a loss making service just to get in and then start farming people in getting so entrenched that the client has no choice but to keep using them.

[youngguy]

I guess we will see a lot more contractors subbing via a consultancy as April rules kick in, at least until the consultancies can swap them out for permies grads

[northernladuk]

I guess we will see a lot more contractors subbing via a consultancy as April rules kick in, at least until the consultancies can swap them out for permies grads

Doesn't one example in the consultation document cover the scenario where a consultancy has a number of people in. I'm sure they are still in scope.

[LondonManc]

The big consultancies are charging out independent contractors at over double the rate they pay them at the place I am engaged. You'd think that margin would have to give.

I've been approached about work in Telford and Newcastle but told the agencies that it's not viable any more given we can't charge expenses and will likely taxed at source from April 2017.

Yes to the first part; but I've seen other consultancies try and "compete" for business with local contractors by using bobs.

As for it not being viable, put in a quote to reflect the new tax levels. While they don't care about your tax situation, you do. It's not like it's changed mid-contract and you're about to down tools because they aren't going to reissue a new contract.

[youngguy]

Doesn't one example in the consultation document cover the scenario where a consultancy has a number of people in. I'm sure they are still in scope.

Oh Yes, scenario 3 if I recall.

This option would not circumvent the rules , but potentially a consultancy could hoover up the contractors , bung them a couple of hundred more and then once they get their own staff prepped, swap then out for permies.

Cost to client : the same (eg 1200 or whatever)
£ to contractor: few hundred more
Advantage to big 4: secure the work and make a few hundred profit on the contractor for 6 months then swap out for permies and make many 00s a day.

Managed service means they now have the business for an eternity

[northernladuk]

I'd spend more time actually understanding how agents work and what they are to you than flailing about and guessing what constancies are going to do.

[eek]

Nope previously this was hosted and managed by HP. The system is now going in house within DWP and that is the rate in the adverts that have appeared today for the system migration jobs....

And the architect job has appeared. Rates a bit low for the person who knows how it works and can fix the immediate performance issues I'm aware of - but I'm sure that can be negotiated slightly....

[youngguy]

I'd spend more time actually understanding how agents work and what they are to you than flailing about and guessing what constancies are going to do.

Oh come on NLUK, don't be grumpy about that! You must have better things to do than hold grudges and drag that up from yesterday.

Seeing as you did, it's interesting that all those (you included) who were quick to judge didn't actually come back with any information on the added value you had personally experienced.

I'm no one's enemy here. I come to learn and debate with an open mind. Others may like to d*ck measure,put people down or spend time trawling through posts to loiter around points from the past and have the last word.

The good thing is we all get what we need from this forum