Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[DotasScandal]

how do you go about reclaiming money taken from you unfairly?

You're not really familiar with HMRC's new "business plan", it seems...
As the APN crowd, they'll bring you up to speed.

[LondonManc]

You're not really familiar with HMRC's new "business plan", it seems...
As the APN crowd, they'll bring you up to speed.

If you're going to laugh, I'm happy to play the "well, I wasn't stupid enough to fall for a scheme" card. I considered it a legitimate question.

[youngguy]

That article isn't to be taken lightly though. The two questions for example...



I've spent a lot of time badgering my client about these. I'd hazard a bet that a large number of roles in the PS will struggle to get anything but YES to both of those. It's taken a lot of work to prove to my client the answer to these is NO for me and have to constantly remind them which doesn't go down that well. I can't see how your standard permatractor PM or coder is going to do it.

You've still got to be very careful and can't rest on your laurels.

Also we need to remember that, although those Qs are not new, the examples in the consultation doc are. I cannot see how the definition they use would not catch all.

[youngguy]

I'm sure HMRC would be interested in the miss-selling and giving out adhoc tax advice that is wrong.

I don't think it makes a difference.

Gov enforces rules in Apr. The contractor either accepts or walks . What an agent told them months before won't matter. Agent can plead ignorance or just deny. To be fair I have heard just as many contractors say they will be fine come Apr "ah but I'm a managed service" for example.

[youngguy]

Maybe we should start those conversations with "one moment, just starting the audio recording". Whether we have that capability or not, to at least try to keep them honest. I know, that thought alone is

If there was proper regulation of agencies they'd have to record all their calls like many other sales people do.

I presume mobile phone plan sellers have to record their calls as a verbal contract when selling upgrades over the phone that aren't always what the buyer really wants or needs. For those I usually ask them to put the offer in writing/email and so far not one has been followed up that way so no sale. Maybe that's the best way to handle agent's BS to weed out some of the shysters. If it can't stand up to being put into email form then that speaks for itself.

Ok, but as a business I would never take someone with a vested interest in me signing a contract at their word - that is why I always get an impartial professional view on contracts before I sign.

Besides, they won't be laughing when they have to do all the admin for collecting our tax come April. I'm sure agency mngrs are as nervous as us about the rules ,but the first line fodder has only one thing on their mind....get the signature so the commission can be banked .

[youngguy]

So, when your PS contract is found to be outside IR35, how do you go about reclaiming money taken from you unfairly? Not least when you've already run your ltdco year end?

I'm yet to think of an example or delivery model where it would be found outside.....anyone else had more success?

[DotasScandal]

If you're going to laugh, I'm happy to play the "well, I wasn't stupid enough to fall for a scheme" card. I considered it a legitimate question.

Not laughing at your question. Just implying that HMRC has probably not thought about any actual provisions for such repayments (see APN's vague "if we were wrong, we'll pay you back"... followed by a myriad of exclusions and special cases where they reserve the right to NOT pay you back).

[neil99]

So, when your PS contract is found to be outside IR35, how do you go about reclaiming money taken from you unfairly? Not least when you've already run your ltdco year end?

You'd need a lot of cash to engage a tax specialist who would then take up the matter with the revenue, presumably leading to a tribunal if an agreement can't be reached by arbitration.

I'm probably wrong here but I think the going rate is 250k for a 1st tier tribunal ?

[neil99]

I'm yet to think of an example or delivery model where it would be found outside.....anyone else had more success?

Evidently the fairly well know Bristol based agency that specialises in security cleared contracts has come up with one! PM me for the details. (I need an emoticon for 'tongue in cheek')

[DotasScandal]

It's something like that.
I.e. for an individual contractor, it's practically impossible to fund.
HMRC knows it, and it's perfectly factored into the calculation (as are all the various "stalling tactics" that will be deployed against you).