HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[eek]

I largely agree with this.

Although it could be argued that this is an unusual form of debt since, if the taxpayer subsequently went on to win their tax appeal, HMRC would have to repay the tax and penalties with interest. Bankruptcy is a big step which is irrevocable.

I don't know if this is an argument that would carry any weight with a bankruptcy court though.

Surely that argument would only wash if it was HMRC trying to make the taxpayer bankrupt which I doubt they will do immediately in such cases. I think they will just extract whatever money from people that they can as they can..

[jbryce]

banging the drum (again)

Surely that argument would only wash if it was HMRC trying to make the taxpayer bankrupt which I doubt they will do immediately in such cases. I think they will just extract whatever money from people that they can as they can..

HMRC pursue Bankruptcy. Its what they do, they use it as a deterrent and as a punishment. With cases they legitimately win - it's a fair thing to do tbh.
However, given their record of success in court - 80% win of the cases they pursue - there is still 1 in 5 individuals who will be at risk of bankruptcy, and all that it entails, but have a perfectly winnable case.

HMRC have no idea how a lot of the schemes that are DOTAS registered worked. For retrospective cases they will be unable to identify those cases that they have even an 80% chance of winning.
The APN notice will set HMRC off on a path where the juggernaut of collections will result in bankruptcy of individuals who under the present scheme would have their day in court and may have won.

[DotasScandal]

However, given their record of success in court - 80% win of the cases they pursue - there is still 1 in 5 individuals who will be at risk of bankruptcy, and all that it entails, but have a perfectly winnable case. .

This "80%" success rate is a meme that HMRC has been propagating for a while, and it is a bit worrying to see it catching up even here...

Like you said, HMRC does win most of the cases THEY TAKE TO COURT. The trick is that they pick their fights - their own guidelines force them to carefully select the cases they take to court. In other words, they only do so with cases that they have a disproportionate chance to win!
Kinda like a small bully only getting into fights with the weakest kids.
If tomorrow, *all* DOTAS schemes went to court to be tested on their own merits, it is highly probable the win ratio for HMRC would be much lower.
It is probably much more than 20% of taxpayers that could have a win in court against HMRC.

Otherwise, HMRC would not need this APN sh*t...



www.dotas-scandal.org

[MrO666]

Well... these guys are in for a rude awakening if there ever was one!

Still astonished at the level of hubris and complacency on the part of those likely to be on the receiving end of an APN bullet.

I don't think it's either hubris or complacency, people on here are just airing their opinions and thoughts, and unless you work for HMRC and know factually what's going to happen, then i'm afraid that's all you're doing too.

As for me, I've already made full provisions so couldn't really care. Yes it would be nice to keep the money, but if they come knocking I have it to give them......... I woke up to that two years ago when DA's started coming out, every tax specialist I spoke to made it clear that one way or another, HMRC will probably get me to pay up in the end, so start thinking about it now. I did just that................

[DotasScandal]

I was not referring to people ON HERE specifically, but to the many people out there that delude themselves that "everything will be taken care of" (by the scheme promoters, by other groups, by other individuals...), that there is no need to do anything.

If you don't really care being ransomed because you have put money aside for it, that's cool...
That's a way of approaching things, but I'm not sharing it.


www.dotas-scandal.org

[MrO666]

Ah ok, apologies for misinterpreting your comment

I do care of course, I'm just at the point where I'm not going to live my life in misery about it if that makes sense. I've had a couple of learn years which means worst case scenario I can deal with it and not panic.

Personally, I feel that the people who have had this on their own radar for 2 years (if not longer) and have made no provisions are the crazy ones.

[vern19]

Ah ok, apologies for misinterpreting your comment

I do care of course, I'm just at the point where I'm not going to live my life in misery about it if that makes sense. I've had a couple of learn years which means worst case scenario I can deal with it and not panic.

Personally, I feel that the people who have had this on their own radar for 2 years (if not longer) and have made no provisions are the crazy ones.

You've got the right attitude. The vast majority of people on this forum are highly paid contractors. In five years time when another half a mill has been earned all this will just be a bad memory.

[Penguin]

Response from my MP

Hi All,
Using the templates kindly posted by Donkey Rhubarb, I emailed my MP on Friday night. At 8am this morning I received a response (after a couple of automated responses which I thought is all I would get). He said;

"Thank you for your email expressing concern about an aspect of the Finance Bill.

I’m afraid I do not know what a DOTAS arrangement is but perhaps you can enlighten me.

In the meantime, I am more than happy to send your complaint to David Gauke at the Treasury which is the best way of proceeding as I am not a member of the Bill Committee. However, to assist I suspect it would help to have your NI number which please pass to my Private Secretary, Elizabeth, to whom this email is copied.

I agree with you about retrospective legislation so will be happy to raise the matter at Report Stage if the reply from Mr Gauke does not address your concerns."

Does he really need my NI Number???

Thanks
Penguin

[TheDandy]

You've got the right attitude. The vast majority of people on this forum are highly paid contractors. In five years time when another half a mill has been earned all this will just be a bad memory.

Sure thing, and in 5 years time who knows what other BS retro legislation can we expect to see if this latest BS is allowed to pass. You may just have another half mill in 5 years that is another target of your new acquaintance.

[TheDandy]

Hi All,
Using the templates kindly posted by Donkey Rhubarb, I emailed my MP on Friday night. At 8am this morning I received a response (after a couple of automated responses which I thought is all I would get). He said;

"Thank you for your email expressing concern about an aspect of the Finance Bill.

I’m afraid I do not know what a DOTAS arrangement is but perhaps you can enlighten me.

In the meantime, I am more than happy to send your complaint to David Gauke at the Treasury which is the best way of proceeding as I am not a member of the Bill Committee. However, to assist I suspect it would help to have your NI number which please pass to my Private Secretary, Elizabeth, to whom this email is copied.

I agree with you about retrospective legislation so will be happy to raise the matter at Report Stage if the reply from Mr Gauke does not address your concerns."

Does he really need my NI Number???

Thanks
Penguin

As much as you need his inside leg measurement!