Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[nekro]

I guess this is aimed specifically at fellow Boox clients, has anyone found out a more accurate figure of what they would likely be owing after claiming back the corporation and dividend taxes etc? Is this something Boox are meant to be advising us on?

I can't even reach Boox any more, their phone number is permanently going straight to the "high volume of calls please email" crap and I've not had an answer in 4 days to the email. I can't even see what interest I'm accruing because they are my tax agent and presumably have the log in. Very worried and confused and appreciate any advice here thanks!

I would consider leaving Boox. Do you still want to have a relationship with the firm that is being investigated as your MSCP? Best to separate yourself for the purpose of this enquiry.
In addition, my experience was that their service fell to such a poor level it simply wasn't worth the money they were charging for their services.

[Mark G71]

I’m glad that I found this thread – it’s been helpful to realise everyone has had a similar reaction to me about this latest shocker. Thanks.

Sorry – this is probably a stupid set of questions/stating the obvious. I’m just trying to get my head around all of this…..

What happens if CK can’t raise the £1.3m they need to pay for the legal costs? If they say they’re not paying for legal representation, then presumably the 5 companies selected for test tribunals have to pay for their own legal representation? At that stage, I’d like to think the wider group of us affected by this would organise ourselves to collectively fund the cases.

Is it too late to join David Kirk’s MSC Survivors or are they still accepting new people to the group? Has that been helpful? I didn’t join initially as I felt that CK were giving the necessary support and advice, but I’m now having second thoughts about this.

PS I see CK have released another statement with a lot of backtracking in it.

[bnacontractor]

This is an awful situation we have found ourselves in, and as you say doing everything legitimately. This coming from someone who got themselves involved in something legitimate (at the time) but extremely dodgy this further attack came as a huge shock by changing to do 'the right thing'.

You chose your accountant through FCSA, no dodgy schemes here and this happens. For what it is worth the main purpose of their attack (IMO) is to frighten as many current or potential LTD/PSCs away from being LTDs and using brollies/PAYE. I believe that has worked very well.

As many have pointed out HMRC push the legislation as far as they absolutely can to see where it breaks, they have zero to lose and everything to gain (see above). Will HMRC win? The biggest problem I see has always been the packaged products and the fees, using CK as your accountant to do your VAT, end of Year, even to use their portal for expenses/invoices etc., is not the problem.

As to your situation it won't mean losing your home unless you choose to pay the bill by raising money on the sale of your home. HMRC can't take your home as payment especially if you have under 18s in the house/home. They can take your possessions/extra property etc., but they can't take your home. If you take a second mortgage to pay your bill then your home is at risk of course.

Also remember if it comes to paying the bill get your MP involved get a long TTP you can survive this, without losing your home.

I had come to the thinking I was going to represent myself in court anyway if it got that far.

Gather every single shred/bit of evidence to prove to HMRC you were not an MSC. Every single bit from your business cards to your website, to your employees pay slips to your logos! In the Costello case those companies didn't even know the name of their LTD! Did your contract client force you to become LTD (mind did) originally. Anything and everything gather it up now.

Thank you for your reply and advice. It is helpful to hear how other people are dealing with this. I do agree it is to scare contractors but it hard to be a powerless pawn in this battle. I don’t think they realise the effect and impact this has on peoples lives. Particularly when many of us were hot so hard through covid with little or no financial support. I don’t suppose if we have to pay these bills they will back date all the support we would have got if we had been Classed as employees then! Seems very one sided.

[eek]

I’m glad that I found this thread – it’s been helpful to realise everyone has had a similar reaction to me about this latest shocker. Thanks.

Sorry – this is probably a stupid set of questions/stating the obvious. I’m just trying to get my head around all of this…..

What happens if CK can’t raise the £1.3m they need to pay for the legal costs? If they say they’re not paying for legal representation, then presumably the 5 companies selected for test tribunals have to pay for their own legal representation? At that stage, I’d like to think the wider group of us affected by this would organise ourselves to collectively fund the cases.

Is it too late to join David Kirk’s MSC Survivors or are they still accepting new people to the group? Has that been helpful? I didn’t join initially as I felt that CK were giving the necessary support and advice, but I’m now having second thoughts about this.

PS I see CK have released another statement with a lot of backtracking in it.

The most important point is that they don't need to raise £1.3m now. They just need enough money to pay for the first tribunal and ensure that the test case defendents are careful enough not to say something stupid like - CK issued the invoices for us.

The cost of that first tribunal is £100-250,000 or so and probably on the lower side of that because many people do first tax tribunals themselves.

As for whether it's worth joining a group or not - firstly, not a clue, because you won't know what they are really doing until you join and possibly not even then. Secondly you may not need it provided if the first tribunal is argued correctly.

[GregRickshaw]

I’m glad that I found this thread – it’s been helpful to realise everyone has had a similar reaction to me about this latest shocker. Thanks.

Sorry – this is probably a stupid set of questions/stating the obvious. I’m just trying to get my head around all of this…..

What happens if CK can’t raise the £1.3m they need to pay for the legal costs? If they say they’re not paying for legal representation, then presumably the 5 companies selected for test tribunals have to pay for their own legal representation? At that stage, I’d like to think the wider group of us affected by this would organise ourselves to collectively fund the cases.

Is it too late to join David Kirk’s MSC Survivors or are they still accepting new people to the group? Has that been helpful? I didn’t join initially as I felt that CK were giving the necessary support and advice, but I’m now having second thoughts about this.

PS I see CK have released another statement with a lot of backtracking in it.

Welcome and good to know this thread has been helpful.

CK have handled their fund raiser very badly and no one, despite many questions, yet knows why they want this huge figure, it's certainly not for FTT>

The idea of a group is appealing to some to be able to be in the same 'boat' as others, quite what DK and the others do though is beyond me because until recently CK gave me everything I needed for free. DK is not a lawyer so will not be your representation in court, what you hope from the groups is they all come together with all their members to brief a barrister for the cases, in which case a GoFundMe style of investment would be good.

CK have a lot of questions to answer.

Yes they released another statement, still unclear.

In the meantime be ready to fight your own case and gather every single shred of evidence you can to dispute you were an MSC.

[Lotok]

I am part of the DK group and so far he has filed peoples appeals for them if required (I just did my own). He is also putting in requests for a conditional refund of dividend and corporation tax. I think for some people who do not fall clearly under HMRC's accusation, he is also having them removed from the enquiry.

Until this all goes to court, I am not sure what else there is to do. I suppose just having the group formed is something in itself though.

[GregRickshaw]

I am part of the DK group and so far he has filed peoples appeals for them if required (I just did my own). He is also putting in requests for a conditional refund of dividend and corporation tax. I think for some people who do not fall clearly under HMRC's accusation, he is also having them removed from the enquiry.

Until this all goes to court, I am not sure what else there is to do. I suppose just having the group formed is something in itself though.

I agree. David too does seem a good guy. There's not much more anyone can do now until tribunal, other than prepare yourselves as this may com down to individual fights

[jamesbrown]

are careful enough not to say something stupid like - CK issued the invoices for us.

If there’s any truth to this, then there really is a case to answer. That is completely nuts, not like accountancy and not very different from CBS. Based on what Greg and others have said, this wasn’t the case for some/most clients but perhaps there was a varied fee structure with corresponding degrees of handholding. If so, oh dear.

[Fred Bloggs]

If there’s any truth to this, then there really is a case to answer. That is completely nuts, not like accountancy and not very different from CBS. Based on what Greg and others have said, this wasn’t the case for some/most clients but perhaps there was a varied fee structure with corresponding degrees of handholding. If so, oh dear.

That's what was posted recently up the thread about invoicing and the like. Yesterday, I think.

That to me is the crux of this case. If clients chose the advertised premium, fully hand holding service from an accountant, it's quite likely they will lose their case.

But the other side of the same coin would be that those with the same accountant on the vanilla book keeping service then couldn't be MSC. It can't be that both of those scenarios are caught. Not if there's any justice any more.

[phonic22]

Hi all,

Very relieved to have discovered this thread and have read a lot of good content regarding the issue (big thanks to all for sharing info). Whist I have been following this on my own via CHK updates on the portal can anyone share details of any legal/tax advice they have taken elsewhere and who with please? this is something I definitely need to do.

As my ltd comp has been dormant for over a year I don't have any insurance that would deal with tax issues (if that is even a possibility) and fear this is gonna hit hard if mr taxman is successful.

Also, is it still possible to join the DK group and how do you join?

Thanks!