Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[jamesbrown]

Spotted this yesterday.
Secret Contractor: How HMRC’s MSC investigation ruined my weekend and took over my life

Apparently, this page has been removed and is being checked for accuracy - it is probably a misunderstanding, as speculated above.

[DealorNoDeal]

I'm certain that this could have been applied to nearly any accounting firm providing services to a contractor.

Absolutely, and if HMRC had unlimited resources they'd probably be targeting a lot more now. It would be interesting to know how they selected CK and Boox but I suspect it's partly just (bad) luck of the draw. I'm sure there are plenty of other firms who fall foul of their dubious interpretation of the MSC rules.

[eek]

Absolutely, and if HMRC had unlimited resources they'd probably be targeting a lot more now. It would be interesting to know how they selected CK and Boox but I suspect it's partly just (bad) luck of the draw. I'm sure there are plenty of other firms who fall foul of their dubious interpretation of the MSC rules.

Because they are big but not part of a larger group.

[GregRickshaw]

1,187 posts
118,264 views

If Hector was aiming to spread FUD, looks like it's working a treat.

The letters and their insane deadlines did that. This forum has done the opposite actually.

[Fred Bloggs]

Absolutely, and if HMRC had unlimited resources they'd probably be targeting a lot more now. It would be interesting to know how they selected CK and Boox but I suspect it's partly just (bad) luck of the draw. I'm sure there are plenty of other firms who fall foul of their dubious interpretation of the MSC rules.

I have wondered how this came about with CK and Boox myself. There's the angle that both are quite big businesses. But not so big they can defend themselves with the very top tax barristers.

My present theory is that there were a couple of pretty ordinary IR35 or VAT type investigations going on. Then it became clear that CK and Boox were offering a fully hand holding service to some clients and the penny dropped that here was an opportunity to capitalise on their success with the MSC legislation. The money at stake absolutely dwarfs anything from an IR35 type investigation, for probably not much extra work. Why catch one when you can catch hundreds/thousands in one net?

I likely have an over active imagination. But I reckon it's likely to be something very humdrum that kicked this off.

[GregRickshaw]

I have wondered how this came about with CK and Boox myself. There's the angle that both are quite big businesses. But not so big they can defend themselves with the very top tax barristers.

My present theory is that there were a couple of pretty ordinary IR35 or VAT type investigations going on. Then it became clear that CK and Boox were offering a fully hand holding service to some clients and the penny dropped that here was an opportunity to capitalise on their success with the MSC legislation. The money at stake absolutely dwarfs anything from an IR35 type investigation, for probably not much extra work. Why catch one when you can catch hundreds/thousands in one net?

I likely have an over active imagination. But I reckon it's likely to be something very humdrum that kicked this off.

I have your belief too, something kicked this off and set off the chain of events. There is a paragraph in the determination letters for CK, which I don't believe Boox clients had. "After speaking to clients".... Now is that whistle blowing, was someone using CK working on an HMRC project which set off a conversation?

The fully hand holding will always be in dispute but even full hand holding is not absolute cause for MSC allegations, when you read the charges anyway.

[Superfly]

For anyone who is feeling bad about this. Don't.

The amusing part for victims of this is that I am sure people chose CK/Boox services exactly for the opposite purpose of what they find themselves involved in here.

I'm sure many chose them because they appear very credible. Yet here we are, wishing we had chose any cowboy accountant or did our accounts DIY and not with the consultation of an expert. The entire reason many don't do them themselves is actually the fear of getting it wrong. Why on earth wouldn't you engage an expert so you don't get punished by HMRC?

I've spoken to numerous specialist in our arena now and every single one has said that this was completely off their radar, especially at the stretch to apply this to an FCSA accreditied accounting firm. I'm certain that this could have been applied to nearly any accounting firm providing services to a contractor.

Whatever happens happens.

This wasn't completely off the radar, word was going round at least around 2019.

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/...-msc-providers

[eek]

This wasn't completely off the radar, word was going round at least around 2019.

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/...-msc-providers

While Rebecca says that letters were being sent no-one else has any recollection of such letters being sent and I would have expected WTT to have had inquiries had letters actually been sent.

[GregRickshaw]

Are there any cases where a MSC tribunal have been thrown out?

I have searched and can't find any court cases I always end up back on the Christanyou [sic] case.

[GregRickshaw]

While Rebecca says that letters were being sent no-one else has any recollection of such letters being sent and I would have expected WTT to have had inquiries had letters actually been sent.

Interesting to read that only two captures are mentioned, no mention of the infamous fee structures.