Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[rabbleish]

Throughout 2007-2021 myco used SJD. Not once did they mention a portal. I used the spreadsheet.

[eek]

Throughout 2007-2021 myco used SJD. Not once did they mention a portal. I used the spreadsheet.

One thing you will notice on the HMRC enquiries forum is that those impacted wish for others to be in the same boat.

And yep a custom portal is something I've never grasped the reason behind - yes it made sense prior to FreeAgent but now you are always going to be second best (to FreeAgent) and the only advantage is some potential level of additional retention compared to an accountant using FreeAgent.

[Fred Bloggs]

Throughout 2007-2021 myco used SJD. Not once did they mention a portal. I used the spreadsheet.

Then, as far as I can reasonably see as a lay person, you had a vanilla book keeping service from SJD and you have nothing to worry about regarding MSC legislation.

[GregRickshaw]

One thing you will notice on the HMRC enquiries forum is that those impacted wish for others to be in the same boat.

And yep a custom portal is something I've never grasped the reason behind - yes it made sense prior to FreeAgent but now you are always going to be second best (to FreeAgent) and the only advantage is some potential level of additional retention compared to an accountant using FreeAgent.

Little harsh eek, I certainly would not wish this on anyone. Apart from maybe gaining solace and solidarity from others involved and of course the natural human emotion of 'why me?' but definitely not my thing.

I do however continually probe as to the why and wherefore of any possible angle.

[rdw1970]

An MSC provider is “involved with the company” if the MSC provider or an associate of the MSC provider meets only one of the following conditions:-

(a) benefits financially on an ongoing basis from the provision of the services of the individual

(b )influences or controls the provision of those services

(c) influences or controls the way in which payments to the individual (or associates of the individual) are made

(d) influences or controls the company's finances or any of its activities

(e) gives or promotes an undertaking to make good any tax loss.

HMRC say conditions a c and d apply to Boox and I assume CK too

[Sonic3389]

At the moment Hector is ONLY going after 17/18 with CK yes.

But regardless of winning or not more letters are due to be received for NI claims for that year 17/18 AND they (Hector) have reserved the right to start sending letters for 18/19 19/20 20/21 etc., for CK clients (and Boox apparently).

BUT as you say only the years you were with CK so if you switched after 17/18, for this particular investigation it won't naturally follow you will get letters for your other accountants practices.

Yeah this is what I meant, so if we switch now we could still be caught for 17/18 right through to 21/22, but if that takes 3 years to get the result at least for those 3 years we'd be with someone else so we'd be safe from this particular case covering that specific period.

Guess I'll start looking into a FA + YE accountant setup instead - bit of a pain the tax year ends midnight on Tuesday, I'm guessing any payment for services that goes to CK after that date is enough for Hector to say we had a MSCP+MSC relationship for that tax year...?

[GregRickshaw]

Yeah this is what I meant, so if we switch now we could still be caught for 17/18 right through to 21/22, but if that takes 3 years to get the result at least for those 3 years we'd be with someone else so we'd be safe from this particular case covering that specific period.

Guess I'll start looking into a FA + YE accountant setup instead - bit of a pain the tax year ends midnight on Tuesday, I'm guessing any payment for services that goes to CK after that date is enough for Hector to say we had a MSCP+MSC relationship for that tax year...?

We can only hope the letters for the periods we were with CK (or Boox) after 17/18 don't come or this case collapses before tribunal. I suspect the other letters will come fairly soon. Certainly after it gets to tribunal.

[rabbleish]

Then, as far as I can reasonably see as a lay person, you had a vanilla book keeping service from SJD and you have nothing to worry about regarding MSC legislation.

Agreed. But the approach seems to be to prove the accountant was an MSCP and then de facto each PSC was an MSC. That will then get fought by a range of PSCs all providing evidence to counter the idea that the MSCP was anything other than a simple accountancy service for the PSC.

God I love TLAs!


Maybe it's just another FUD approach to drive people into PAYE umbrellas at the end of the day.

[GregRickshaw]

Maybe it's just another FUD approach to drive people into PAYE umbrellas at the end of the day.

This is their ultimate goal I believe (and the grab the dirty outside IR35ers without having to do owt)

[Sonic3389]

Just received my "appeal accepted" email response from HMRC, surprised to see my/our compliance officer works at 6pm on a Sunday... looks like Hector is approving overtime.