Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[DealorNoDeal]

CK have already stated very publicly they are not paying for solicitors/barristers for our cases.

So, you're being left to fend for yourselves?

[eek]

elsewhere Carolyn Walsh has posted what might be a get out here - one that would throw the blame (and tax) at the agency via TAAR rather than your company.
See Post | Feed | LinkedIn

It boils down to the reason why you created your limited company:-

1) if it was for limited liability reasons the reason isn't tax avoidance.
2) if it was for tax saving reasons at the recommendation of your accountant - than the accountant (and you) have the MSC problem
3) if it was because the agency only worked with limited companies its possible the blame is with the agency not you - you only created the company because the agency insisted on it.

Now I'm not 100% sure about Carolyn (because there are posts I would disagree with) but it's worth thinking about the above as you work out how to appeal and possibly throw point 3 in rather than point 1...

[GregRickshaw]

So, you're being left to fend for yourselves?

Financially yes we are, CK are advising on 'good solicitors' etc., CK can't (how ironic) 'get involved' at the hearing as they are not on trial.

[GregRickshaw]

elsewhere Carolyn Walsh has posted what might be a get out here - one that would throw the blame (and tax) at the agency via TAAR rather than your company.
See Post | Feed | LinkedIn

It boils down to the reason why you created your limited company:-

1) if it was for limited liability reasons the reason isn't tax avoidance.
2) if it was for tax saving reasons at the recommendation of your accountant - than the accountant (and you) have the MSC problem
3) if it was because the agency only worked with limited companies its possible the blame is with the agency not you - you only created the company because the agency insisted on it.

Now I'm not 100% sure about Carolyn (because there are posts I would disagree with) but it's worth thinking about the above as you work out how to appeal and possibly throw point 3 in rather than point 1...

Thanks again eek. I fall firmly in point 3 having been told by a gigantic British television corporation they would not accept Umbrellas (as cojak suggested way back when ( I have physical and electronic proof of all of that good stuff).

I remember I was relieved at the time as we all know what kind of Umbrella I had been using until then. What a diabolical irony

[cojak]

Financially yes we are, CK are advising on 'good solicitors' etc., CK can't (how ironic) 'get involved' at the hearing as they are not on trial.

Then there’s no loyalty issues for staying with them - I would get out as fast as my legs (and accounts) would carry me…

[DealorNoDeal]

Financially yes we are, CK are advising on 'good solicitors' etc., CK can't (how ironic) 'get involved' at the hearing as they are not on trial.

In which case, I'm struggling to see how this ever gets to tribunal. For a decent tax barrister, you're looking at £100k to take a case to the FTT.

Did you previously say that HMRC have identified CK clients to take to the FTT as test/lead cases? How the hell are they going to afford representation?

With the CBS case, my guess is most clients folded (settled), and it was just a handful of brave (foolhardy) souls who took it to the FTT/UT/CoA.

[GregRickshaw]

In which case, I'm struggling to see how this ever gets to tribunal. For a decent tax barrister, you're looking at £100k to take a case to the FTT.

Did you previously say that HMRC have identified CK clients to take to the FTT as test/lead cases? How the hell are they going to afford representation?

With the CBS case, my guess is most clients folded (settled), and it was just a handful of brave (foolhardy) souls who took it to the FTT/UT/CoA.

Exactly

I did say that yes, I was quoting verbatim from CK's response

Yes for all the bravado about us not being MSC, we have been declared MSC so if CK are found guilty of creating us as MSC, you can imagine how much that would cost in time and financials for those brave enough to go forward to prove actually we are not MSC. eek has thrown out the nugget about the 'forced into' legislation which may help but for me I don't have the stomach or time to fight this.

As has been said many times, it is nothing more than a IR35 raid of which the outcome will be thousands driven to Umbrellas and the rest of us paying on account knowing full well we may as well sling that money on 50/1 shot at Wolverhampton.

If I weren't so full of hate right now, you have to say it's a very clever move by Hector.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Array

This part worries me, what idiots did they speak to that told them this? who tf can't pay themselves without checking the portal(s)? The new tax limits are announced before each new tax year starts, you know right then and there what you'll be paying yourself for the year?

But this goes around in circles, doesn't it?
If I engage an accountant that has a portal then it's a handy tool that shows me all the information in one place. There's nothing in a portal I couldn't work out for myself (and hence would have to be careful about how I worded any evidence to Hector).
Hector - the portal tells you what to do and you have no idea what to do without it.
Me - The portal is a useful tool that shows me some calculations I could easily put in a spreadsheet or two (or a different software package/SaaS provision) - I can do all that for myself but I am buying a service that does it - I am using it for calculations but I'm not reliant on it.

I mean I can read a map or gawp at roadsigns but I tend to use satnav now as it's easier - does that make Garmin an MSC?

HMRC are nuts and out of control.

[DealorNoDeal]

Then there’s no loyalty issues for staying with them - I would get out as fast as my legs (and accounts) would carry me…

Indeed. And it makes me wonder if CK have "given up" on the PSC part of their business.

[GregRickshaw]

Then there’s no loyalty issues for staying with them - I would get out as fast as my legs (and accounts) would carry me…

They are dead to me.