Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[jimmyoyang]

Apologies for being dim, what is a POA . . . . ?

It is a payment on account, it's something we should all have done for our self-assessment in previous/upcoming years. The point of the POA (from my understanding) in this instance, is to put the money that is owed into a 'holding account' which will then not build up interest from the point you've put it in. As this fight will most likely extend for a few years... the interest in those years could be quite crippling. BUT, of course, that's if you have the necessary fund to even put said charges on the account.

If (praying to god) we win, then the funds will be released back to you. The downside is it'll take up to 9 months for it to come back to your account.

Don't quote me on the above, but from my limited knowledge, I think that's the principle of it in this case.

[jimmyoyang]

There is one more company who you may want to consider, who are not doing the class action/group thing (which is utterly useless as we are all different).

Gilbert Tax, as far as I know they are the only ones actively going at HMRC and not just sending out templated letters and appealing stuff.

I had my 17/18 determination removed, I fully expect 18/19 to now not even come thanks to Gilbert Tax pointing out the obvious.

From your list though, and from what I know DK seems the best option as he is cheaper and doing the exact same thing as the others. He is already asking for another £175 though and yes he seems a good guy and knows his stuff but he is only writing one letter and templating out to all others, he's not offer an individual service.

The other option of course is to use CKA's free appeals and conditional letters which have been drafted by their solicitors, who will be representing CK clients at the tribunal.

QDOS are right, if CKA and Boox can't convince HMRC they are the P in all of this, and let's be honest here HMRC have no interest in that fight they want the tribunal then it will be an uphill task to prove you are not an MSC (not impossible but difficult after tribunal and written law).

Thanks! I will definitely reach out to GT... I haven't come across them so will send them a line at some point in the coming days. What a minefield! Crazy how there will be people will getting rich in our demise.

[rdw1970]

In addition to my investigation for a tax expert to represent me, I also have a question for the wider group. I am exploring the idea of POA... to at least ring-fence the growing interest rates. However, I most definitely do not have the money that's being asked for, especially in my business account.

My question is, if I POA but used personal funds (I know it is a business-related issue right now) would that be approved? Secondly, if yes, then if that money was a gift (from my parents) would that be approved? will there be interest in that transaction as it came from a third party? and with the high-value money at stake, would I need to get a 'Gifted Deposit Receipt' signed and sealed by a solicitor? as if I was buying a home? Which is what I had to do in the past. Or, do HMRC not really care where the money comes from as long as they got it in their reserves? Food for thought.

Thanks again.

I tried to close my company after taking a permie role so asked HMRC if I could still make a POA from personal funds as my business bank account is closed and I no longer do self assessment and they said that I could. Sounds like they don't care where the funds come from but its worth checking with them first.

[jimmyoyang]

I was advised earlier this week that the claim for relief on DT and CT is 4 years (we should all apply for this to avoid double taxation). I've been sieving through the HMRC internal manual this AM, and according to one page, updated 7 March 2022, it states:

"A claim for relief under this section must be made by the MSC by notice to an officer of HMRC within five years after 31 January following the tax year in which the distribution is made."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3585

Am I reading this incorrectly, but it says 5 years clearly?

[jimmyoyang]

I also tried to work out the DEP and Employer's Class NICs with HMRC internal calculator/maths. I managed to get to box 2... then faltered. Really don't want to pay £450+VAT for someone to work it out for me! Did anyone manage to get a relatively accurate working out of their liability for said years on their own?

source: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3550

[Sijo]

I was advised earlier this week that the claim for relief on DT and CT is 4 years (we should all apply for this to avoid double taxation). I've been sieving through the HMRC internal manual this AM, and according to one page, updated 7 March 2022, it states:

"A claim for relief under this section must be made by the MSC by notice to an officer of HMRC within five years after 31 January following the tax year in which the distribution is made."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3585

Am I reading this incorrectly, but it says 5 years clearly?

I believe 5 years is for Dividend tax relief and 4 years is for CT relief.

[dochkaian]

I also tried to work out the DEP and Employer's Class NICs with HMRC internal calculator/maths. I managed to get to box 2... then faltered. Really don't want to pay £450+VAT for someone to work it out for me! Did anyone manage to get a relatively accurate working out of their liability for said years on their own?

source: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3550

I've just used one of the take home calculators, I've assuming this will give a fairly accurate picture of NI and PAYE due. I've done it for the tax years in question.

I've factored in company pension payments into the calculation. I've then just made a general assumption that I'll be refunded the DT and CT, however I suspect this would need to be made retrospectively. I'm also assuming there will be some allowable expenses, of which I'm hoping travel will be one.

But agreed I was going to leave paying for a detailed calculation until I need it (which hopefully I won't). It should be less than I've calculated . . I hope!

[eek]

I've just used one of the take home calculators, I've assuming this will give a fairly accurate picture of NI and PAYE due. I've done it for the tax years in question.

I've factored in company pension payments into the calculation. I've then just made a general assumption that I'll be refunded the DT and CT, however I suspect this would need to be made retrospectively. I'm also assuming there will be some allowable expenses, of which I'm hoping travel will be one.

But agreed I was going to leave paying for a detailed calculation until I need it (which hopefully I won't). It should be less than I've calculated . . I hope!

Sadly, I don't think any travel expenses are allowed.

[jofo]

I was advised earlier this week that the claim for relief on DT and CT is 4 years (we should all apply for this to avoid double taxation). I've been sieving through the HMRC internal manual this AM, and according to one page, updated 7 March 2022, it states:

"A claim for relief under this section must be made by the MSC by notice to an officer of HMRC within five years after 31 January following the tax year in which the distribution is made."

Source: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm3585

Am I reading this incorrectly, but it says 5 years clearly?

I am pretty sure it is 5 years for relief against dividends. In my letters i refer to the specific sections of legislation that apply. For example relief against dividends is set out in section 61H.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/1/section/61H

The legislation does allow you to claim relief against dividends issued in previous and future tax years.

[Hareforthebear]

But agreed I was going to leave paying for a detailed calculation until I need it (which hopefully I won't). It should be less than I've calculated . . I hope!

We shouldn’t have to pay anyone to calculate it, HMRC should provide their detailed working. The fact they have not provided this to anyone as far as I’m aware, despite presumably being asked in every appeal, does not make any sense. Do they have any confidence in how they have come to that figure at all? Is it something they want to keep secret until tribunal for some reason In their original determination it said the figure was calculated on a ‘best judgement’ basis yet they still expected us to pay it.

it is an absolute disgrace they are allowed to operate this way in this country.