Muslim awareness classes for schools?

[No2politics]

Religious fundamentalists.

To tar all muslims with the same brush is the equivalent of saying that all Christians are members of the KKK.

Yep, Wayne sleep.

[shoes]

I find this conversation rather interesting. What if there was a religion that was preaching misogyny and homophobia. What if it told its followers to convert non members of that religion and what if it stated that those who were not of that religion were a lower form of life and to be treated with contempt. And what if the religion spoke of conquering regions where that religion was not prevalent. And what if people living in states under control of members of that religion ruled with cruelty and violence and made peoples lives miserable.

Now im not saying that is what islam is, I am not a scholar of such things. I have heard more learned people than me say that is precisely what it is and I have heard other more learned people than me say that it is not like that at all.

But lets say this fictional religion existed. What would happen? How would it manifest in the west? Would the bending over backwards for the minority that the left enjoys so much put us all in danger? Would any questioning of the wisdom of the acceptance of such views that are so incompatible with a civilised society be rejected as bigotry, as ignorance, etc by those who themselves haven't looked into the darker side and just speak in such ways to be beardy right on sandal wearers?

There are those that interpret the 'holy' books literally and those that pick out the nice bits. There is no doubt that islam is inspiring violence in some people. They are called islamic extremists. They name their groups in a way that identifies themselves as of that religion. To pretend that islam has nothing to do with these acts is bizarre and dangerous, is it not? The problem needs to be understood with a clear head. Perhaps it is ok for a civilised society not to welcome a barbaric one.

Now is Islam responsible for that barbaric society I have spoken of? I don't know, Im not a scholar of such things. But let's not reject that possibility out of the british fear of causing offence. That would be rather odd would it not.

That these acts are committed by people that claim to do it in the name of islam is worthy of note. Don't pretend it isn't happening and let's have a debate where it is permissable to say that perhaps not all cultures are compatible with the modern world as we know it.

I would be interested to hear a muslims views on this, what is the literal interpretation of these passages I hear about? Does the religion itself promote hatred and violence? If not how have these islam inspired groups come into being? Why is so much violence done in the name of islam? If you're crazy why pick that religion in particular to kill under the flag of? What is your explanation?

[mudskipper]

What if there was a religion that was preaching misogyny and homophobia. What if it told its followers to convert non members of that religion ...

Sounds like Christianity.

[Wanderer]

You clearly don't understand the difference between culture and religion.

Perhaps that is the answer then. Young people don't distrust Muslims per se, rather it is that they don't trust people who's culture and values differ from the traditional values of the UK.

To expand that further, many of the negative things we see associated with the various religions (prohibition of contraception and abortion, oppression of women, arranged/forced marriages, female genital mutilation, rejection of alcohol, systematic sexual abuse of children, homophobia) are actually cultural issues rather than strictly religious ones.

So it follows that the solution is to educate the people from minority cultures to help them understand the culture of the country they live in so they can integrate better and accept British values.

[SueEllen]

Oh yes that notoriously Islamophobic BBC

The poll was done in June this year. Why did it take the BBC until September to release the results? I will say it again Mori, YouGov and other polling companies release their polls within a month of them conducting them. So why did the BBC delay releasing that poll?

[SueEllen]

Sounds like Christianity.

[SueEllen]

Perhaps that is the answer then. Young people don't distrust Muslims per se, rather it is that they don't trust people who's culture and values differ from the traditional values of the UK.

What traditional values of the UK?

To expand that further, many of the negative things we see associated with the various religions (prohibition of contraception and abortion, oppression of women, arranged/forced marriages, female genital mutilation, rejection of alcohol, systematic sexual abuse of children, homophobia) are actually cultural issues rather than strictly religious ones


So it follows that the solution is to educate the people from minority cultures to help them understand the culture of the country they live in so they can integrate better and accept British values.

What are these British values of which you speak off? The UK consists of 4 countries.

[amcdonald]

Have we mentioned the connection with Nazism yet

The links to the Ba'ath Party, Amin Al-Husseini, Saddam Hussein, Sadat, Arafat, and the Muslim Brotherhood for instance ?

[shoes]

I await a rational response to my reasonable points.

It is a bizarre blind spot that leads otherwise reasonable people to conclude that despite groups that

1, commit acts of violence and murder who refer to islam in the naming of their organisations
2, state that they are committing the atrocities in the name of islam and
3, more recently in the case of the mall massacre attempted to murder non muslims only by asking about their 'holy' book

... somehow none of it has anything to do with islam.

Do you wonder why you are unable to piece that together? I would like a rational, reasonable, logical explanation. If you cannot provide one how do you account for your views?

[vetran]

I await a rational response to my reasonable points.

It is a bizarre blind spot that leads otherwise reasonable people to conclude that despite groups that

I think its because a lot of people don't believe the religion is key to the decision to go postal. Now many point at nutters like Anders Breivik then say well he was a Christian.

Like most I don't want to tar all Muslims (many who are moderate and good people) as terrorists.

But there does seem to be a two tier religion, the extremist Jihadist tier needs dealing with just as we want the KKK etc to burn in hell. Until the moderate Muslims sort out the extremists then unfortunately they will be grouped in with the nutters by some.

Ireland wasn't about religion it was about power. Now is Islamic terrorism about faith or power? if it is power we need to remove the veneer of religion and show the rotten core (its starting to show with the ex IRA members and most realise they were just thugs with an agenda).