Reasonable comment or Misogynistic madness?

[formant]

And there credibility goes, equating road rage with pre meditated murder using a car.

I would much prefer that the two offences were separated, the perpetrators motives and drives are completely different and I suspect we are doing the victims a disservice by trying to shoe horn them into one offence.

If there was a clear 'no' or several and the guy keeps going, it's rape. It's not more harmless because she wanted whatever physical interaction led up to it. No normal guy would find themselves overstepping this sort of boundary. A rapist would.

No doubt there are many circumstances whereby in reality there was no 'no' or 'stop' uttered, where no boundry was set and therefore none overstepped, where retrospectively the women is trying to wriggle her way out of taking responsibility for a situation she put herself in but doesn't feel so great about afterward. That's a completely different offence and depending on how it's done it's the woman who's the perpetrator here (be that slander, or libel, or perverting the course of justice)

By blending these two very different circumstances you're the one who's losing credibility. The fact that scenario B exists, doesn't make scenario A any more acceptable. Scenario A is still rape, just like that stranger dragging the girl into the bushes.

[darmstadt]

But is it? Genuine question - I can see why people assume that if you look 'sexy' you're more likely to get raped, but is that true?

You can dress an look sexy which I think is different to dressing up and looking like a women who is trying to sell her sex. Dressing to look sexy, in my eyes, makes the woman more powerful whereas dressing to look like a $10 hooker does not. But then again, Frau D. wears dungarees and a polo neck, what would I know?

[northernladuk]

If there was a clear 'no' or several and the guy keeps going, it's rape. It's not more harmless because she wanted whatever physical interaction led up to it. No normal guy would find themselves overstepping this sort of boundary. A rapist would.

No doubt there are many circumstances whereby in reality there was no 'no' or 'stop' uttered, where no boundry was set and therefore none overstepped, where retrospectively the women is trying to wriggle her way out of taking responsibility for a situation she put herself in but doesn't feel so great about afterward. That's a completely different offence and depending on how it's done it's the woman who's the perpetrator here (be that slander, or libel, or perverting the course of justice)

By blending these two very different circumstances you're the one who's losing credibility. The fact that scenario B exists, doesn't make scenario A any more acceptable. Scenario A is still rape, just like that stranger dragging the girl into the bushes.

Now that's a good comment because you are putting in context. This isn't about premeditated attacks. It is about nights out and alcohol. More pointed at date rape and one night stands than picking on dog walkers. They don't get dressed up miniskirts etc. Unfortunately this type of attack is a lot less likely to get reported but a lot more likely to happen.

[vetran]

By blending these two very different circumstances you're the one who's losing credibility. The fact that scenario B exists, doesn't make scenario A any more acceptable. Scenario A is still rape, just like that stranger dragging the girl into the bushes.

So a predatory rapist dragging someone into a bush is the same as a drunk, hormone raging teenage boy with a similar girl?

Just as Murder & Manslaughter are the same? They have the same outcome so they must be the same.


They have different motives and modus operandi , therefore they need to be investigated and prosecuted differently. Just as avoidance measures need to be different.

[d000hg]

I don't know murder and manslaughter is the right comparison. Maybe premeditated and non-premeditated murder.

[SueEllen]

One thing you are all missing that is relevant in the discussion is - alcohol.

An opportunist rapist will be looking for a person who is vulnerable and if you are the state of being sick and blacking out and most importantly clearly on your own - then you are vulnerable whether you are wearing dungarees or a belt.

Oh and in regards to dressing up guys really don't care if women are dressed up or not, however other women in and out of your group can make catty comments, and those out of your group will start fights.

[northernladuk]

So a predatory rapist dragging someone into a bush is the same as a drunk, hormone raging teenage boy with a similar girl?

Just as Murder & Manslaughter are the same? They have the same outcome so they must be the same.


They have different motives and modus operandi , therefore they need to be investigated and prosecuted differently. Just as avoidance measures need to be different.

Now that is an emotive question!!! Try asking that in the public domain and you will get strung up but I have to say it is a fair question. Neither are right in any way shape or form but would hope that they deal with the criminally deranged one differently to stupidity. Maybe not any less harshly but one of those it would be possible to correct, the other will still be a danger to society forever.

[northernladuk]

One thing you are all missing that is relevant in the discussion is - alcohol.

An opportunist rapist will be looking for a person who is vulnerable and if you are the state of being sick and blacking out and most importantly clearly on your own - then you are vulnerable whether you are wearing dungarees or a belt.

Oh and in regards to dressing up guys really don't care if women are dressed up or not, however other women in and out of your group can make catty comments, and those out of your group will start fights.

I would argue that I am afraid. We do care which is exactly why women dress up. There is a massive industry based on it and has been since time began. That cannot be questioned. With regard to rape it depends on context but dressing up does make a huge difference to the response you get from a guy.

[BrilloPad]

"Richard Graham said that while what a woman wore did not necessarily attract sexual predators, it could make it harder for them to get away from an attacker."

Lets hope those attackers never think of wearing training shoes.

[SueEllen]

So a predatory rapist dragging someone into a bush is the same as a drunk, hormone raging teenage boy with a similar girl?

Hard to believe but just because a rapist doesn't drag every victim into a bush but is a drunk, hormonal raging teenage boy doesn't mean he hasn't done it before with a different girl.

This is the same for nearly every type of crime you can think off - the majority of perpetrators will carry on until they get stopped.

That's the thing that juries don't hear as they aren't allowed.

They aren't allowed to find out that the perpetrator has a history of convictions, failed court cases and allegations for the same thing.